One Last Shorty

Where users can chronicle their builds. Start one thread and continue to add on to it.

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ccvstmr
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Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: One Last Shorty

Post by ccvstmr »

makinsmoke wrote: Sun Mar 05, 2023 9:27 am Santa Fe’s F unit passenger fleet had the steam generators mounted in the B units typically.

One of the first mods for a Santa Fe Athearn A unit was file off the steam generator exhaust stack on the rear of the roof.
Sorry Brian...missed your post before. YES...I remember doing the same on my Athearn F units. After all, freight locomotives don't have steam generators in the rear compartment (but there was a toilet back there). So the steam generator vents and other doo-dads were removed from the rear roof panel. Wow, talk about a blast from the past! Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: One Last Shorty

Post by ccvstmr »

DETAILS - Stacks 'R Us, Part 1

Sorry guys...took a short break. No, wasn't done explaining various details. Thought this time, I go from what was under the car to what was on top of the roof. Starting with the stove stacks. Not sure stove stack fabrication was fully described when I wrote about cars #5 and #6. So, will reach back to grab some photos "from that era".

Basis for the vertical stove stacks was 1/2" copper pipe. Where the stack came up thru the roof on cars with a clerestory roof, used a 3/4" to 1/2" copper pipe reducer...and filed out the 1/2" pipe "stop" dimple inside the fitting so a piece of 1/2" copper pipe could pass thru the fitting.

Honest Dave ganged a bunch of brass flat stock blanks together to make stack caps and machined out the corners. The stack of caps were put in the shop oven to heat and remove the temper (hate working with angry metal!). Once annealed, tabs were bent on the ends to engage slits machined on the top end of the stove stacks

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Rigged up a forming operation where the stack caps could be formed around a piece of round stock...without damaging the stack cap tabs...and used a small jewelers vise to "press" the ends of the stack caps.

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When completed, there was a supply of stack caps ready to go.

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Honest Dave used his arbor press and a large ball bearing to deform flat fender washers that would make the stack rain sleeve. After the holes in the fender washers were opened in the lathe to slide down the 1/2" copper stack pipe, the washers were "pressed" into a cone using a large ball bearing and an arbor press.

The 1/2" stack pipe, reducer and rain sleeve would be silver soldered in a vise. Even soldering the arrangement upside down and with plenty of flux, had trouble getting the solder to flow around the (3) pieces to join them. The idea was to puddle the solder in the rain sleeve cone. For some reason, the solder did NOT want to flow down to the copper pipe. Decided to slit the top of the reducer to give the solder a way to flow around the parts. And...that worked.

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Next photos shows the long stacks less stack caps for the shorty passenger cars with the clerestory roofs, and the short stacks without the reducers for Dave's Central Pacific passenger cars with the wagon top roofs.

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The stacks as seen above were then glass bead blasted for cleaning in preparation to soft solder the stack caps in place. This way, when the torch heat was applied to solder the stack cap, the silver soldered joints would not come loose. Will finish up the stack fabrication next time. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: One Last Shorty

Post by ccvstmr »

DETAILS - Stacks 'R Us, Part 2

With the stove stack fabrication underway, the stacks had the reducers (where needed) and the rain sleeves silver soldered in place. Next, was time to soft solder the stack caps in place.

The sides of the stacks were slit for the bent cap tabs. Then, dealing with some of the cap "spring back", needed a way to hold the caps in place while heat and solder were applied. Ended up taking some large washers and boring out the hole to get the approximate diameter of the cap (a single size and single purpose clamp). Used those washers to hold the cap in position until the soldering operation was completed. With the lower amount of heat needed to get soft solder to flow, didn't have to worry about the silver soldered parts coming apart.

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When all the caps were soldered in place, the caps were run thru Honest Dave's glass bead blast cabinet to clean up the stacks in preparation for painting.

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Here's the rest of the stacks fabricated for the original cars. Longer stacks were for my cars #5 and #6. The shorter stacks were for Dave's Central Pacific cars #1 and #2. The (2) stacks for car #7 followed the same methodology.

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And here's (1) of the two stacks made for car #7.

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Probably should have started the stack post with the next couple of photos...okay, they're at the end. When car construction began several years ago, looked at using commercially available 1/2" copper T's for the stack caps. Here's a 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2 T stack cap...used something like this for caboose stacks. Maybe belt sanded the ends to put a slight taper on the T ends.

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Here's another commercial copper T that can be purchased...a 3/8 x 3/8 x 1/2. From the construction series, should be obvious Honest Dave and I opted to go with something a bit more "vintage" looking.

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There's one more roof detail to describe. Actually, these showed up in the view 3 photos above...roof vents. Will cover that next time. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: One Last Shorty

Post by ccvstmr »

DETAILS - Venting Frustration

Was going to start this post by discussion roof vents. Some of you might have already seen these in several photos when the roof construction and car lighting were mentioned...since roof vents were located above each interior oil lamp in the original #5 (coach-baggage) and #6 (coach) cars.

While looking for ventilator prototype photos, came across the following roof stove stack image. This was from the original car #6. The roof stacks for all of the scale passenger cars built followed this type of construction. Think our design and fabrication was spot on. You judge.

no. 6 stove pipe.jpeg
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Okay, let's get to the ventilators. From information and photos sent to me, found out cars #5 and #6 had different roof ventilators. Can't say if these were still original equipment or not. The #5 coach-baggage had a ventilator that looked like something I would call a cabbage cap. Had to chuckle when this photo was sent to me. No doubt, the car roof had seen plenty of roofing tar applications during the last 100+ years.

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The coach #6 had a ventilator design the resembled a mushroom cap. Since the model ventilators would be used as "roof knobs" to lift/place the roof on the car, wanted something that large/small hands could get a good grip on. Decided to use the mushroom type of vent for all the passenger cars built. This seemed to be easier to grab and not lose hold.

no. 6 roof vents.jpeg
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Knowing the mushroom style ventilators were made in 10" diameter housings, fired up the CAD system and designed/dimension-ed a mushroom cap type ventilator." Used 1.25" diameter aluminum rod to make the caps. Would cut a length of rod that could be chucked up in my Atlas-Craftsman lathe without exceeding the capability of the machine (head stock spindle could only accommodate rods up to 3/4" diameter). Machined caps in a "2-up" configuration. That is, worked both ends of the round stock to the middle. Since I added a cross feed dial indicator to the back of the lathe carriage...and a dial indicator clamped to the bed ways, was easy to keep track of X and Y tool post moves. Machine work went quickly.

The caps were machined from the bottom up. This way, could drill/tap each cap for a 10-24 screw thread...so there was plenty of thread engagement when the cap was screwed in place. When most of the lathe work was done, parted off the raw cap. Could then turn that around and machine the tapered cone top by chucking the bottom of the cap. Some light filing and sanding work and...done. During the years when all the passenger cars were built, probably made some 30+ roof ventilators. That total included a few spares too.

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Made a hard wood drilling fixture to locate the ventilators on the roof. The fixture was aligned along the center line of roof AND cross center lines to locate either one or two vent caps in a particular location. For a pair of lamps inside the car, the two outboard holes were used for a pair of vents. A single vent used only the center hole. One hand used to hold the fixture. The other hand used to run the cordless drill. It was that easy. When done with the drill guide...it went in the box with other car building fixtures.

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Lastly, here's a long view of the car #7 roof showing the (6) roof vents and (2) stove stacks.

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And that...concludes the roof top details. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
Odyknuck
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Location: Chardon, Ohio

Re: One Last Shorty

Post by Odyknuck »

Very nice indeed.
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: One Last Shorty

Post by ccvstmr »

Odyknuck wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:19 pm Very nice indeed.
Thanks Ody...just trying to keep the car properly ventilated...and keep the company prez happy! And as you know, that ain't always easy! Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: One Last Shorty

Post by ccvstmr »

DETAILS - Vinylized

Time for another "quick hit" while closing in on one of the more notable car detail items...BUT, not ready to let that out of the bag just yet. Surprised nobody has asked about that subject up! You'll see soon enough.

Was time to consider what to do with the graphics on the car sides. Starting with...color selection. Previously, cars #5 and #6 used white vinyl cut graphics. Since this was the presidents company RR car...had to do something to "up" the appearance. Had several choices: 1) white (like before), or 2) gold/bronze or 3) silver. Decided to tape strips of each color over the car corner mock up to see how the colors looked against the Hunter Green background.

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Decided to use the silver vinyl. Why? Well, the Rutland loco has stainless steel boiler bands and other "silver-ish" decorations. So, why not give the observation/parlor car at the back of the train...something to compliment the details of similar color at the front of the train?

At one point, Honest Dave had asked me if there was a way to cut some vinyl "swirls" for his baggage and coach cars? He (well, it was me in reality) wanted to apply these on various car corners. Was able to over-lay (2) kinds of swirls in various orientations to come up with something he liked. And he was MOST satisfied with the way those turned out!

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So, sat down in front of the 'puter here and called up the vinyl cutting program. Figured out how to make the swirls "thicker" so there was more surface area to bond the vinyl swirls on the car surface...and the swirls didn't look so "delicate". Once again, (2) types of swirl patterns were selected. Used mirror imaging to make left-hand and right-hand swirl patterns. Always cut more than needed. Don't know how many pieces of vinyl might be lost during the "weeding" and/or "transferring" to the car body. So here is what I came up with.

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The swirls were added to the lower car corners. Didn't want to over-power the car with too many "frill-y" or swirly looking things. Otherwise, the graphics were nothing more than the CORONA & CENTRAL VALLEY road name across the signboards and of course...car #7 in the middle of the car. Much less when compared to freight cars with load and weight limits on one side of the car and the car dimensions on the other side.

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And the other side, was pretty much a mirror image.

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Well, that was quick and simple enough. Next time, have another decorative car detail to share. See you then. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: One Last Shorty

Post by ccvstmr »

DETAILS - Mural, Mural On The Wall

Time for another "quick hit" here. During the planning stages for car #7, thought I would incorporate some stained glass-looking windows for the lavatory and observation deck side windows. Found someone on-line that made doll house windows...but those are 1:12 scale...not 1:8 scale. Contacted the guy. Yes...he could make something to suit my requirements...at a cost of $50 per hour for the design and fabrication. Thought there had to be another way to do something that was different and "dress up" the car a little bit.

Decided then to glass bead blast the smaller round windows for the lavatory and the window on the opposite side of the car. That was easy enough. Use a hole saw (without a pilot drill) to cut the acrylic to the desired dimension and bead blast. Done.

For the observation end of the car, came up with an idea to use photographs and incorporate those into the larger round windows. Since the cars were patterned after equipment that ran on the Sierra Railroad, decided to look for on-line photos from that region.

Found several photos of Tuolumne region scenery. Had to find something that would still look decent when scaled to fit inside a window opening about 3" in diameter. Of the collection of photos extracted from the internet, decided to use (1) scenic view and (1) Rutland view.

After scaling the images, the photos would be laser printed on clear acetate. These would be cut to fit inside the window opening. Used a larger hole saw (again without the pilot drill) to cut (2) pieces of acrylic glazing for each window. Why two? Was going to sandwich the acetate printed images between the round pieces of glazing. Use a dot of contact cement to keep the acetate from moving inside the window.

Selected the following Tuolumne meadow image...

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And this is how it looked from the observation deck looking out...

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For the other side of the deck, grabbed a photo of the Rutland on the Carlson Creek trestle...

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And when printed, cut and inserted in the round window frame, this is what this ended up looking like...after I made sure the tender seat cushion and the rest of the train was cut out of the view...

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So, wherever car #7 goes, a little piece of the Sierra Railroad follows...along with a loco photo...at the back of the train.

Well, the list of car #7 details continues to dwindle. However, the next subject will probably take several posts to describe. Might consider this the crown jewel for something on the back of the train. Stay tuned. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
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makinsmoke
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Location: Texas Hill Country

Re: One Last Shorty

Post by makinsmoke »

Love these articles. Thank you!

I was looking at the photos of #6.

The wood roof rails on the outer edges of the roof just seem like the design would concentrate water/moisture/leaves, etc all in that groove and rot the roof out. Thoughts?

What are the two cables for? Surely not roof grabs? If so, one better be using gloves!

Radio antenna? Don’t need two. 🤔

Please keep up the great work. Everybody has a little different way to skin a cat, and we all learn from each other.

Brian
Rwilliams
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Re: One Last Shorty

Post by Rwilliams »

Some of the collateral damage of being a movie railroad that has to bend to the proclivities of Hollywood actors, is the modifications to the passenger car roof structures. With all the jumping from car to car and from rock formations next to the track, or fight scenes, something had to be there in case things went wrong. Even in the movies, safety is sometimes a high priority as stunt men are hard to come by. The extra pieces of wood and wires do not distract much from the ground view, but give that extra bit of security when Hollywood filming is on the raw edge. One of the vintage shorty cars was sanded down for paint research. I believe they counted almost 40 different colors of paint before reaching bare wood.

At least Carl listened to reason and did not include the Hollywood fluff in his roof construction adventures.

Attached image shows a view taken at Cooperstown sometime before 1956 with a western themed movie in progress. Note the roof lacks the later safety wood trim additions.

Robert
Attachments
Sierra RR movie equipment roof before 1956 without the wood safety strips.  Western movie being filmed at Cooperstown..jpg
Sierra RR movie equipment roof before 1956 without the wood safety strips. Western movie being filmed at Cooperstown..jpg (63.38 KiB) Viewed 724 times
Last edited by Rwilliams on Sun Mar 19, 2023 4:36 pm, edited 3 times in total.
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: One Last Shorty

Post by ccvstmr »

makinsmoke wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 12:44 pm Love these articles. Thank you!

I was looking at the photos of #6.

The wood roof rails on the outer edges of the roof just seem like the design would concentrate water/moisture/leaves, etc all in that groove and rot the roof out. Thoughts?

What are the two cables for? Surely not roof grabs? If so, one better be using gloves!

Radio antenna? Don’t need two. 🤔

Please keep up the great work. Everybody has a little different way to skin a cat, and we all learn from each other.

Brian
Brian...

Glad to read you like the posts. You're most welcome. And if there's anything you can use in your modeling endeavors...go for it!

Before I started construction on the #5 and #6 models, I contacted the California State Parks Dept to see if they could provide any info. My request was directed to the Parks Dept. Curator who provided photos and answers to questions..usually non-technical.

I saw the same as you...the boards and cables on the roof. At first, thought the cables were for hanging/displaying banners over the side of the clerestory roof. Found out...since this equipment was used often for Hollywood/movie productions, the cables were installed at some point and used during the filming of Back to the Future III. Towards the end of the movie, Michael J. Fox and Christopher Lloyd run across the tops of the cars to get to the loco. The cables were for fall protection harnesses the actors wore. No more, no less. If you've ever ridden a loco or train, you know when the train zigs...you zig. And when the train zags...you zag. 'Cause if you zig when the train zags...you're going to fall over!

Keep watching. There's more coming this way. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: One Last Shorty

Post by ccvstmr »

Rwilliams wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 8:33 pm Some of the collateral damage of being a movie railroad that has to bend to the proclivities of Hollywood actors, is the modifications to the passenger car roof structures. With all the jumping from car to car and from rock formations next to the track, or fight scenes, something had to be there in case things went wrong. Even in the movies, safety is sometimes a high priority as stunt men are hard to come by. The extra pieces of wood and wires do not distract much from the ground view, but give that extra bit of security when Hollywood filming is on the raw edge. One of the vintage shorty cars was sanded down for paint research. I believe they counted almost 40 different colors of paint before reaching bare wood.

At least Carl listened to reason and did not include the Hollywood fluff in his roof construction adventures.

Robert
Robert...thanks for the additional background info about the fall protection fittings. 40 coats of paint? Seems there might be a few places where the paint was holding the cars together. And you're right...when I found out the purpose for the roof top hardware...decided that wasn't worth modeling. Even if I found 1/8th scale Fox/Lloyd characters...would still look for some other way to secure those to the roof.

Thanks for your post. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
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