Box cab loco info

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ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Box cab loco info

Post by ccvstmr »

Hi guys...looking for anybody out there in Chaski-land that owns a Cannonball 4-axle box cab. Need to sell off my Backyard Rails NYC F unit consist (A-A) because of storage space limitations. The consist has one powered and one dummy unit. Was wondering if the box cab loco satisfied your expectations? Did you get the extra 2-motor option? How does the loco perform with the extra pulling power? Looking forward to some responses. Thnx. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
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Gra2472
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Location: Monte Rio California

Re: Box cab loco info

Post by Gra2472 »

I don't have a Cannonball box cab, but I have seen a few around from time to time. I can't speak to specifics about them, but they seem to have very similar performance to my West Valley electrics. I have seen one of the Box Cabs pulling a three car train with relative ease. I assume it has the 4 motor option. I know that I have seen a pair of Cannonball Little Macs hauling a few gondolas and rather large human freight at an impressive track speed. I think with the four motor option would would be happy with a box cab.

As a loose frame of reference, my electrics are pretty powerful. One can pull a two car train for about eight hours on a pair group 27 batteries. Depends on the load and grade of course, but they usually do pretty well for a days worth of running. However, I also keep a pair back up batteries in the caboose for reserve if I unexpectedly run low. This was a lesson I learned after buying batteries at Walmart.

G
7.5" Allen Mogul
3 x 7.5" West Valley Baldwin Westinghouse Electrics
The railroad is almost done.
G. Augustus
Monte Rio, Ca.
ccvstmr
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Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: Box cab loco info

Post by ccvstmr »

Hi Garrett...

Would expect a 2 motor box cab to perform better...even with 4 or 5 cars on a track with 2.5% grades. Would only get better with a 4 motor version. Don't know what the Hp rating is for those motors. However, do know by comparison my 4'ish Hp rated Allen 10-wheeler will pull a 10-12 car train up that grades (no riders). That's approximately 1200 pounds on the tender drawbar. Still, would like to discuss loco performance with an owner...and then try to reach C-ball to determine availability.

Spare set of batteries? Good choice! Run on one set of batteries while the other batteries get charged...swap out batteries as need to keep going. Have seen that done many a time.

Thanks for the feedback. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
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SPSteam2491
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Re: Box cab loco info

Post by SPSteam2491 »

Carl,
The availability for Cannonball products was just discussed. Never hurts to follow up with Cannonball, but you may want to look at alternative options.

http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/vie ... ll#p457278
Thanks
John LaFavor
Pacific Design Shops
ccvstmr
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Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: Box cab loco info

Post by ccvstmr »

Thanks John...but my primary interest at this point is locomotive PERFORMANCE. Comments made in your referenced thread were about loco availability...more like a completed loco. Not interested in an R-T-R loco. Would rather build the loco myself...incorporating upgrades as I see fit along the way. As such, availability (at this point) was down on the list.

If the parts are available, no additional effort is needed on C-ball's part other than to box up the parts and ship 'em. If motors are a problem, THEN...that kinda kills the project.

Have sent a message to C-ball. At the least...and old expression come to mind..."the courtesy of a response would be appreciated". Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
Gra2472
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:02 pm
Location: Monte Rio California

Re: Box cab loco info

Post by Gra2472 »

At home, one of my electrics easily handles a six car train with three or four riders. I have a short 4% and a short 5% grade. I can run for four or five hours no problem. But at a club track with longer runs, I try to keep the train length to a minimum so that I can put in the miles.

G
7.5" Allen Mogul
3 x 7.5" West Valley Baldwin Westinghouse Electrics
The railroad is almost done.
G. Augustus
Monte Rio, Ca.
Pontiacguy1
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:15 am
Location: Tennessee, USA

Re: Box cab loco info

Post by Pontiacguy1 »

My son and I built a little 4 wheel electric critter, finishing it over the summer. it weighs about 250 lbs or just over that, and has two 350 watt 2750 RPM motors in it. It is geared for a theoretical top speed of 7.5 MPH. I have pulled a train that was approximately 1300 lbs weight around the Mid-South track with its 3%+ grades multiple times and didn't have a problem with it. It would lose speed down to about 6 MPH on the steep grades, but it pulled it well enough. If it slowed down much more than that, it would start slipping. That's a lot of train weight for such a small locomotive, definitely more than I had thought it would do during the design phase. I was extremely pleased with the performance of it.

Looking at the few specs that I can find on their website, Cannonball says that the Jackson and Sharp powered truck kit uses four 1/3 HP, 3000 RPM motors. I would assume that the powertrain in the boxcab uses the same motors and gearing. 1/3 HP is 250 watts, and that's about the minimum that I would want per axle for a 1 1/2" scale locomotive. Based just on that alone, because I can't find anything else at this point, I wouldn't go with the 2 motor version unless the motors were 500 watts each or you don't intend to do any heavy work with this locomotive, or it isn't going to weigh more than a couple of hundred pounds max.

Surely someone on here has one of these locomotives and can comment. I've seen one or two, and they seemed to perform well, but I don't know anything about them.
ccvstmr
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Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
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Re: Box cab loco info

Post by ccvstmr »

Pontiacguy...
That's the kind of info I was looking for. While you're loco might not be directly applicable to the C-ball box cab loco, your comments provided some basic background info that can be considered. Thank you. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
Mr Ron
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Re: Box cab loco info

Post by Mr Ron »

If you can find a mobility scooter or motorized wheel chair, you have just about all you need to power a box cab. My mobility scooter is powerful. If I run into a piece of furniture, it will push it aside. Look on E bay or craigs list for used scooters.
Mr.Ron from South Mississippi
ccvstmr
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Re: Box cab loco info

Post by ccvstmr »

Ron, thanks for that tip. At this point, I'm not looking to re-engineer a scooter into a track mobile. But I can see where the idea of stripping down a scooter to re-purpose the electrical hardware might have some merit. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: Box cab loco info

Post by ccvstmr »

Well guys...had someone point me in the direction of a used Cannonball, 4-motor box cab loco. Had to drive out East to pick it up and haul that back to the Chi-town area. Luckily, the Seller's family WAS able to locate the hand control box...during the 11th hour. HOWEVER...previous owner was in the process of rewiring the hand control box and control connector. As such, the loco was inoperative at time of pick up. Was told the motors were "bumped" after jumping the batteries directly to the motor leads.

Was working on this loco purchase for the last several weeks. Before the control box was located, tried to reach out to Cannonball on several occasions for info to purchase a ready to run throttle, or purchase a kit and assemble the control box myself. As a last resort, would purchase a set of schematics for troubleshooting purposes and/or collect/assemble my own parts. After three attempts, have gotten ZILCH in the way of any response from Cannonball. Do you think that bothered me? If a company isn't going to respond to inquiries...they should take their website down!

So, going out to the hobby folk to see if someone out there...ANYBODY OUT THERE...has such electrical info for this locomotive? Please advise. Even if you know someone with one of these locomotives...if you can provide their contact info (with their permission of course), I'll gladly see what we can work out. The info is out there somewhere...just have to find it! Thanks in advance or any help Chaski folks can provide. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
Pontiacguy1
Posts: 1566
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:15 am
Location: Tennessee, USA

Re: Box cab loco info

Post by Pontiacguy1 »

Maybe this is not what you are wanting to hear at this point... But if it were me and the locomotive were mine, I would put in an all new controller and would go remote control with it. If you are looking for easy, then Steve Wassell's remote control units are plug and play. Just tell him what type of motor controller you are running (Syren, 4QD, etc...) and he'll fix it all up so that it can plug into your controller. I would want to re-do it just so that it has modern components, and not stuff that you have to go back to the manufacturer to get. I am assuming that all the motors work and that you are going to re-use them and that they are 24 volts.

I would also assume if I were you that Cannonball is now gone and that anything that they used to offer is no longer obtainable, at least not through them. That's why I would go with a name-brand motor controller and then use that remote to control it. I have been pretty darn happy with this setup on my little switcher. You may have to put some noise suppression on your motors. That's the direction that I would go. It wasn't that hard to wire it all up. I seem to be allergic to wiring, and I got it done without too much fuss. Y'all electrical people would have laughed at me, but it is finished and it works.
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