extract welding rod

[golfpin]

Big Dave, I am bit behind time wise, have just read the thread remove cap screw in aly could you explain "extract welding rod" type or make any info would be greatly appreciated.
Golfpin

[steamin10]

I think I am the 'Big Dave' so here goes: There is a specialty rod that comes in various sizes, in an assortment box of one pound. We bought this salesman's -snakeoil remedy- and were surprised that it worked as claimed or better. You simply laid a nut over the broken stud or bolt, and welded up through, filling the nut, and finish with a rose around the top. After a short cooling period, you rocked the nut back and forth, and usually the stub worked out of the hole. This material is 120k psi, so it is quite strong, so a 1/4 inch is more than enough to drive a 3/8 stub. The slag is quite fluid and runs to the side protecting the threads if below surface. If it snapped, there was usually a higher nib left to start another try, with another nut, and it normally worked and saved the piece

It is called Magweld, or Magnaweld, something like that. It has been a few years, but I am sure it is out there. Being a special purpose rod, I am sure major welding suppliers will know about it.

The problem, as mentioned, is being in aluminum, you may effect the strength of the threads, or adjoining materials. Because the slag runs in and cools quickly, this is somewhat buffered. We were always under the gun to save hydraulic parts based on aluminum, with high carbon bolts fracturing off, socket heads in particular. Many were 1/4 fine thread. Nearly impossible to drill in aluminum due to wander. Again, I think we had better than average luck with this method.

Thats all I can say from memory.

[golfpin]

Steamin10. aka Big Dave,
Thank you so much for the prompt and clear reply/explanation. Magweld or similar I have heard of, whether or not I can explain this to the local Snakeoil/welder supply people is highly unlikely.
Because of the huge drop in our currency value against the dollar [on par once, now Rand 12 = 1 dollar, US stuff like this is unlikely to be imported.
As aside I did mange to get some cheater lens' after being told "never heard of them". This was because I kicked up such a ruckus with the local agents of for MIller US that they went and found some and suppled them free of charge|. Just to add a few more financial warps I had occaison awhile back to price the famous Eutectic 16FC low temp brazeing hi-tensile rod [our terminolgy]. I was quoted R4000.00 per kilo that is like $2000.00 for 1 pound weight! Price converted so as to try and give an indication of the costs in our terms vs yours at US$/to ZAR Rand. No doubt someone has a Chinese clone, but such is life in Africa. Thanks again,
Golfpin

[steamin10]

Yikes, I had no idea, if that rate is true! I assume it is because you should know. Stay tuned.

[Glenn Lyford]

I have heard of people using MIG, TIG, and stick with either plain rod (60xx, 7018, ...) or stainless rod being able to accomplish this. If there is a broken e-z-out jammed in the bolt, the consensus seems to be go with a stainless or nickel rod to deal with the extra carbon and other alloys in the e-z-out.

I understand that doing this in aluminum is easier, but people have also pulled it off on cast iron.

So my thought is try what you have first before you get too hung up on finding the exact rod.

The other trick I have seen is a sharp rap square on the end of the fastener (you'd probably need to use a pin punch if you are broken off inside a hole). Apparently, it helps to crush corrosion and free up a tiny amount of space between the threads.

My other favorite trick is left hand drill bits. I buy the cheap import ones from Harbor Freight, so I have hopes you might have similar imports available to you. If the fastener you are removing is merely broken and not stuck, as you are drilling one of two things will happen. You will either drill enough of a hole for an e-z-out, or the bit will catch and walk the whole thing right out of the casting. I suspect you are already past that point, though.

I would say, put a nut over the hole and weld it on with what you have. Rock it in and out until it breaks free, starting while it is still hot.

[Harold_V]

In many cases, the mere fact that heat has been applied (welding the nut on) is cause enough for the once stuck thread to release. A sharp impact, as has already been mentioned, also helps.

I agree----try a stainless or nickel rod. Any rod, for that matter, in a pinch.

Harold

[BadDog]

I just went through this on my tractor. PO twisted off a bunch (11 out of 24) of loader frame bolts that hold it to the engine block. I assume they got loose and they tried to over torque so "they ain't gonna come lose on me again @#$&!" And I found a broken ease-out in one. Anyway, it took a bit of work, but I managed to get all but 2 out. They were broken flush or below, so I cleaned it out good with a burr, then used my MIG to build up a "tit" on each one. I got about half of them fairly easily on the first go, and one pulled out the broken ease-out that I hadn't previously noticed. Did it again and got all but 3, eventually gave in on the last 2. I've also done this many times in the past, including a few knuckle limit stops on front 4x4 axles.

[redneckalbertan]

I've used a rod from ArcTec that I was told was purpose designed from removal of stuck threaded items, I can't remember the name of it. It works much better than 7018 or MIG, not to say that they won't work. Allow it to cool as Dave suggested before trying to loosen it. The heat expands the metal of the broken bolt. What ever it is in constrains the expansion sideways so the bolt expands lengthwise. As it cools it shrinks in all directions giving you a little bit of clearance in the threads helping the extraction, or at least that was how it was explained to me. To try and remove it hot increases your chances of twisting the nut off the top and having to repeat the procedure. As well the expanding force of the bolt will act as a brake adding additional pressure to the thread.

[golfpin]

Thanks to all for the input, adds to the tank of "experiknowledge" spiced with a bit of self confidence. Cheers Golfpin

[revrnd]

I ahve seen the same trick performed @ work to deal w/ a broken fastener in steel. I'm pretty sure that the welder didn't use a specific rod to do this.

[redneckalbertan]

Revren you are right that it can be done with regular rod, the purpose made rods that have been mentioned make it easier.