15" Gauge live steam 4-4-0 Boiler, piston castings, wheels & tender trucks

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Tank245
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15" Gauge live steam 4-4-0 Boiler, piston castings, wheels & tender trucks

Post by Tank245 »

Available is a Kit for a 15" gauge 4-4-0 American Locomotive. This kit was a part of the Fred Kepner collection in Southern Oregon and is now owned by the Oregon Coast Scenic Railroad. As a volunteer of the Railroad, i have been given permission to look for interest in the live steam community for this kit. Anyone with serious interest in the kit can contact me, and if a deal is made I'll put you in contact with the correct management.

Here's what is available:

The boiler, dimensions are 7'5" with smokebox, 5'10" without. Barrel diameter is 22. Bottom of firebox to top of steam dome is 66". Mud ring is 13 3/4"x22". This boiler is marked on the backhead with Gabco B&E co, 1967 with an ASME stamp. There is also a super heater unit in the smokebox. To my knowledge this boiler has never been fired and is being sold "AS-IS".

2 semi machined cylinder castings. The cylinder bore has been machined and has pistons. As well as 2 front and 2 rear un machined piston covers. and unmachined steam chest castings.

4 15" diameter driving wheels that are already machined. As well as 4 machined pilot truck wheels.

A pair of home made "Arch bar-ish" style tender trucks.

What appears to be cut steel side frames for the Locomotive.

Eccentrics and driver boxes have also been found and added to this sale!

Everything is sold "AS-IS" with an asking price of $15,000, Or Best offer

Viewing can be arranged through me for serious potential buyers in Merrill Oregon, roughly 15-20 minutes outside of Klamath Falls Oregon.

Also to add, If a deal is made for purchase, we can coordinate a time when heavy machinery is on property for loading purposes. Meaning all you have to do is bring a trailer and we can load the boiler fairly easily. everything else can be loaded by hand.
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Last edited by Tank245 on Wed May 10, 2023 1:06 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Tank245
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Re: 15" Gauge live steam 4-4-0 Boiler, piston castings, wheels & tender trucks

Post by Tank245 »

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hoppercar
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Re: 15" Gauge live steam 4-4-0 Boiler, piston castings, wheels & tender trucks

Post by hoppercar »

Why is it stored outside
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NP317
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Re: 15" Gauge live steam 4-4-0 Boiler, piston castings, wheels & tender trucks

Post by NP317 »

hoppercar wrote: Thu Apr 27, 2023 8:56 am Why is it stored outside
Because it was part of Fred Kepner's outdoor steam collection in Merrill, Oregon.
Fred lived in a mobile home next to his storage tracks.
RussN
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Tank245
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Re: 15" Gauge live steam 4-4-0 Boiler, piston castings, wheels & tender trucks

Post by Tank245 »

Also included now is what appears to be the sides to the frame for the 4-4-0. Just found them this last week.
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Tank245
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Re: 15" Gauge live steam 4-4-0 Boiler, piston castings, wheels & tender trucks

Post by Tank245 »

hoppercar wrote: Thu Apr 27, 2023 8:56 am Why is it stored outside
As stated above, this is a part of what used to be the Fred Kepner collection in Merrill Oregon. The previous owner did not have the ability to store anything indoors, it was stored outdoors. However, Merrill Oregon is an incredibly hot and dry climate which has resulted in little corrosion problems once things were moved here.
318J
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Re: 15" Gauge live steam 4-4-0 Boiler, piston castings, wheels & tender trucks

Post by 318J »

It's worth noting that several individuals in the industry have raised questions about this boiler, including a Kentucky state boiler inspector. Not trying kill a sale, but be vigilant- an ASME stamp does not guarantee much anymore.

http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47369
-Sam
Boilermaker, Pipefitter, former Railroader
"Preserving the Past and Ensuring Our Future"
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Tank245
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Re: 15" Gauge live steam 4-4-0 Boiler, piston castings, wheels & tender trucks

Post by Tank245 »

318J wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 2:24 pm It's worth noting that several individuals in the industry have raised questions about this boiler, including a Kentucky state boiler inspector. Not trying kill a sale, but be vigilant- an ASME stamp does not guarantee much anymore.

http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47369
This is why it is being sold "As-is" and for the price point it is being sold at. It is not being sold as an operational boiler.
318J
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Re: 15" Gauge live steam 4-4-0 Boiler, piston castings, wheels & tender trucks

Post by 318J »

Tank245 wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 9:50 pm
This is why it is being sold "As-is" and for the price point it is being sold at. It is not being sold as an operational boiler.
Well, the listing didn't state that. Many unfortunately may assume that a stamped boiler is "good to go". Thank you for making the disclosure.
-Sam
Boilermaker, Pipefitter, former Railroader
"Preserving the Past and Ensuring Our Future"
Glenn Brooks
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Re: 15" Gauge live steam 4-4-0 Boiler, piston castings, wheels &

Post by Glenn Brooks »

I have no idea what condition this boiler is in, but I do know, these days it’s very easy to verify condition. This could very well be a diamond in the rough. Now days you can easily have an ultrasound and magnetic particle analysis conducted to determine if any cracks exists in the welds, verify full penetration welds in the steel, and find any voids or unsafe anomalies - OR NOT. You can also easily do ultrasound measurements to determine plate thickness and visual internals of the boiler and staybolts condition with an inspection camera. Plus, any good NDT shop will have expert pressure vessel inspectors who can visually inspect the welds and tell you what the boiler condition actually is, and whether any repairs might be required. Most of the shops I’ve talked to have mobile test inspectors who drive out to your location to do the work.

For that matter, a forensic lab can actual analyze a few grams of metal shavings from the boiler tube or water legs to verify actual steel formulation.

Iam having these processes done on a used boiler I recently purchased. My estimate so far is 2 hours of time and $250 fee for a complete NDT ultrasound and mag particle boiler inspection. I already obtained a duplicate P-2 manufacturers certificate with the National Board for a $25 application fee, same day as I submitted my request. So, luckily, I don’t need to do a forensic metallurgy test, which would have cost an additional $250. But, worst case, $500 for an independent professional third party boiler inspection is a pretty good deal.

Also, for code boilers, the ASME cloverleaf stamp is a guarantee the original build conforms to certain minimum documentation and ASME standards for type of steel, weld process, and design in effect when the boiler was made. The stamp guarantees the welder recorded specific details of the build process and attests the shop followed these required welding standards, materials, and procedures. Also guarantees a third party certified boiler inspector reviewed the build at each stage of construction and attested the shop and welder meet the code requirements.

The weakness in the system of course, is that any scuff law shop owner or yahoo worker who thinks he knows better than the civil engineering profession, government regulatory agencies, and boiler designers of the world, can cut corners, substitute improper materials, apply the stamp, and play dumb until it blows up in someone else’s face. This is where Non destructive testing and forensic metal analysis give us all an advantage. These tests are cheap, effective, and widely available. They pretty much take the guess work out of evaluating unknown or suspect boilers.

Once an old boiler like this one in Oregon, is properly inspected, and the P.2 manufacturers certificate verified, a prospective buyer would have very good information to make a decision about purchase and returning the boiler to safe operation.
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Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
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Tank245
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Re: 15" Gauge live steam 4-4-0 Boiler, piston castings, wheels &

Post by Tank245 »

Glenn Brooks wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 8:47 pm I have no idea what condition this boiler is in, but I do know, these days it’s very easy to verify condition. This could very well be a diamond in the rough. Now days you can easily have an ultrasound and magnetic particle analysis conducted to determine if any cracks exists in the welds, verify full penetration welds in the steel, and find any voids or unsafe anomalies - OR NOT. You can also easily do ultrasound measurements to determine plate thickness and visual internals of the boiler and staybolts condition with an inspection camera. Plus, any good NDT shop will have expert pressure vessel inspectors who can visually inspect the welds and tell you what the boiler condition actually is, and whether any repairs might be required. Most of the shops I’ve talked to have mobile test inspectors who drive out to your location to do the work.

For that matter, a forensic lab can actual analyze a few grams of metal shavings from the boiler tube or water legs to verify actual steel formulation.

Iam having these processes done on a used boiler I recently purchased. My estimate so far is 2 hours of time and $250 fee for a complete NDT ultrasound and mag particle boiler inspection. I already obtained a duplicate P-2 manufacturers certificate with the National Board for a $25 application fee, same day as I submitted my request. So, luckily, I don’t need to do a forensic metallurgy test, which would have cost an additional $250. But, worst case, $500 for an independent professional third party boiler inspection is a pretty good deal.

Also, for code boilers, the ASME cloverleaf stamp is a guarantee the original build conforms to certain minimum documentation and ASME standards for type of steel, weld process, and design in effect when the boiler was made. The stamp guarantees the welder recorded specific details of the build process and attests the shop followed these required welding standards, materials, and procedures. Also guarantees a third party certified boiler inspector reviewed the build at each stage of construction and attested the shop and welder meet the code requirements.

The weakness in the system of course, is that any scuff law shop owner or yahoo worker who thinks he knows better than the civil engineering profession, government regulatory agencies, and boiler designers of the world, can cut corners, substitute improper materials, apply the stamp, and play dumb until it blows up in someone else’s face. This is where Non destructive testing and forensic metal analysis give us all an advantage. These tests are cheap, effective, and widely available. They pretty much take the guess work out of evaluating unknown or suspect boilers.

Once an old boiler like this one in Oregon, is properly inspected, and the P.2 manufacturers certificate verified, a prospective buyer would have very good information to make a decision about purchase and returning the boiler to safe operation.
This is good info, Thank you for the contribution! At this point in time any inspections would have to be done by potential buyers, i'm fairly certain with all the stuff that's already on the plate with the rest of Kepner's locomotive's that we are keeping, that the railroad would not waste the time or the money to have this boiler inspected and tested. Especially since it is not something we are considering keeping at all. However, If this boiler were operational and certified, I've had several in the Grand Scale world appraise this boiler at around the $40,000 mark to have built. But being that we cannot certify or verify it's operational ability, that's why we're only asking $15,000 or best offer for the whole lot As-Is. And i'm sure that any reasonable offer would be accepted.
Glenn Brooks
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Re: 15" Gauge live steam 4-4-0 Boiler, piston castings, wheels & tender trucks

Post by Glenn Brooks »

318J wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 2:24 pm It's worth noting that several individuals in the industry have raised questions about this boiler, including a Kentucky state boiler inspector. Not trying kill a sale, but be vigilant- an ASME stamp does not guarantee much anymore.

http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47369
As followup, it’s Interesting the keyboard warriors over on the RYPN thread were able to condemn the boiler without any one of them actually inspecting it.

also, their observation that there is no sidewall reinforcement above the firebox, seems to be incorrect. The welded seam runing through this area indicates component assembly. Clearly the boilermakers who built this boiler installed internal components, and welded the boiler in sections, with the internal structures being part of the upper assembly. How else would the crown sheet and staybolts be installed?

The other interesting bit of information is the national board number stamped on the backhead indicates the manufacturer had previously built well over 2300 code boilers - so clearly this wasn’t built by some backwoods Kentucky moonshiner. Feels like the whole RPYN thread is a Friday night BBQ tale. Tall on dramatics, short on facts.

Anyway, a decent inspection would tell the tale
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
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