Smokebox high temp paints

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Greg_Lewis
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Re: Smokebox high temp paints

Post by Greg_Lewis » Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:25 am

I'll add that ordinary Rustoleum is good to 200°F. If your headlight, marker lights, or other attachments are getting hotter than that, something is wrong with the heat transfer in the boiler.
Greg Lewis, Prop.
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Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 30 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.

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Chris Hollands
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Re: Smokebox high temp paints

Post by Chris Hollands » Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:55 am

Thanks for the reply's - I think for me and other newbies to painting smokeboxes I did not know actual smokebox temps so I was aiming probably to high in the paint temp scale when more standard high temp paints will do the job .

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Chris Hollands
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Re: Smokebox high temp paints

Post by Chris Hollands » Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:28 pm

I did end up using Eastmans Hi Temp manifold paint "cast iron "which was recommenened by a few people .
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NP317
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Re: Smokebox high temp paints

Post by NP317 » Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:08 pm

Looking good!
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Re: Smokebox high temp paints

Post by SG3950 » Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:25 pm

If I remember correctly you are running propane, so this is a non-issue for you. For everyone else. When the 0-6-0 was on coal I made a stainless ash pan, that worked great. But, I also had a firebox wrapper that I painted with the same high temp paint that I used on the smoke box. The 1,200 degF paint did not hold up on the bottom of the wrapper. The bottom ash can put out some real heat while waiting at a siding.

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apm
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Re: Smokebox high temp paints

Post by apm » Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:33 am

On the real locomotives we used graphite and linseed oil. So on my engine I did the same. On first firing it bakes on pretty well. Any repair to the coating is simple and prototypical and the color is a perfect match.

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Dick_Morris
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Re: Smokebox high temp paints

Post by Dick_Morris » Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:12 pm

On the real locomotives we used graphite and linseed oil.
Some do, some don't. Here is a thread on smokebox coatings in a group that includes many with an interest in full-sized, operating locomotives.

http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.ph ... t=graphite

Per the Baldwin specifications for War Department Consolidation locomotives they built, the "smoke box and stack are given two coats of heat resistant black and one coat of lusterless black enamel."

I have a suspicion that the graphite, boiled linseed oil, and steam cylinder oil mix predated paints that would withstand high heat. As better paints became available, manufacturers and railroads migrated to paint. However, the more conservative railroads shops stuck with what they knew.

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makinsmoke
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Re: Smokebox high temp paints

Post by makinsmoke » Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:21 am

Hello Dick,
Interesting note regarding Baldwin practice.

I would offer this. Santa Fe used something called Front End Paint, which some refer to as Tarpon Gray.

The shade varied and changed over the years, and near the end of steam service some facilities were using a silver as noted by the bright silver look.

The thing is, the front end paint, Tarpon Gray, silver, what have you was used on bare smokeboxes and rings, which Santa Fe called the front.

If the smokebox was jacketed and insulated as most later locomotives were, they were painted with the same paint as the boiler jacket.

I wonder if the Baldwin spec you note refers to jacketed smokeboxes? The key would be to see if there was a different paint specified for the smokebox front.

Much research by folks has been done over the years to find an authentic bit of Tarpon Gray, but apparently the Santa Fe did such a good job preparing locomotives for donation that any reliable samples have been lost to the mists of time.

Harry Bean told me once he used graphite and steam cylinder oil because that was what the SP used.

Take care,
Brian

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Dick_Morris
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Re: Smokebox high temp paints

Post by Dick_Morris » Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:18 am

Brian - Here are the rest of the paint specs. "Continued" is the lettering. Lima's specs were similar and ALCO's specs say they are to be painted as directed by the customer.

Note that the War Department is the customer and these locomotives were built to a common design by Baldwin, Lima, and Alco and the U.S. Army Transportation Corps was closely involved in approving every design decisions, so this may not have reflected standard BLW practice for other locomotives . Only about 16 of the 2021 built were retained in the U.S. for use by by the Army and Alaska Railroad, the rest went overseas. A jacketed smoke box would not be the kind of luxury applied to these locomotives.

Reading has raised my curiosity, I don't think our boiler had any paint on it, red lead or otherwise.
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NP317
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Re: Smokebox high temp paints

Post by NP317 » Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:25 am

makinsmoke wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:21 am
[snip]

Harry Bean told me once he used graphite and steam cylinder oil because that was what the SP used.
Brian
That combo of graphite and steam cylinder oil was also used by logging companies in the Pacific NW. Maybe elsewhere, too.
Perhaps they just used what they had available.
I have applied that combo to logging locomotives as part of their restoration. It makes a slightly blotchy, yet functional coating.

Modern "Cast Iron Coat" high temperature paints replicate it nicely.
RussN

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Steamer Al
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Re: Smokebox high temp paints

Post by Steamer Al » Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:31 pm

How would plain old silver never-seize compare to the oil/graphite coating? I think never-seize is a mix of graphite, copper and aluminum. Probably a pricey way of doing a big smoke box but maybe handy for smaller locomotives.

Alex

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Dick_Morris
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Re: Smokebox high temp paints

Post by Dick_Morris » Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:48 pm

How would plain old silver never-seize compare to the oil/graphite coating?
I thought never seize didn't harden/dry out. If that's the case, not very well.

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