Why not to Buy Cheap Jet CNC Mill?

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Dave_C
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Re: Why not to Buy Cheap Jet CNC Mill?

Post by Dave_C »

In the end it really depends on what the op wants to do.
Well said! Not knowing what Steve wants to make, do, create, spend and what not, we can only share what we have done with our machines.

And nope, I don't have room for a VMC. (Wish I did, but then I don't really need one nor could I use one to it's fullest abilities)

Have a good day,

Dave C.
I learn something new every day! Problem is I forget two.
Chipper5783
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Re: Why not to Buy Cheap Jet CNC Mill?

Post by Chipper5783 »

Dave has a good point, Steve has not stated what he wants to do with the CNC, nor what his constraints are (budget, space, power, opportunities, etc). I suppose there is "no free lunch". If you buy a cheap mill, you'll end up with a cheap mill - and perhaps that will work for you. You can convert a manual machine / build your own - you'll put in lots of time, and it may work out great.

I have just started down the CNC path with a 20 year old industrial machine (a BP VMC 1000). My all in cost will be about $12,000 CAD ($6K for the machine, $2.5K to move it, and additional to sort out the power) for a respectable size machine (39"x20"x16"), full enclosure, 20 tool ATC, factory 4th axis, chip conveyor, tool blow off, air padded spindle seal, 40 tool holders - basically all the stuff. I get it that the software can be another whole issue - but that is true for about any machine. This runs a pretty standard G-Code (a DX-32 controller).

Even the largest, fully loaded Tormach (or equivalent) is still less abilities than what I got for less than half the price. I'm sure Dave is right that I won't be able to use it's fullest abilities. If I got half way there - I'd be pretty happy.

Still, this path is "no free lunch" either. I've done a lot of cleaning, fixed numerous minor little things. I saw the machine run, but I have no doubt that there will be more little issues to sort out. I have more risk on how much $$ I'll spend compared to a new machine - perhaps a critical component will fail (many parts are standard electrical components, quite a few parts are also available from BP or various 3rd party vendors - but certain failures will render this a boat anchor) that is part of what makes an old industrial machine so cheap. You have to factor in the risk on your money. Perhaps I've got some expensive scrap metal?

Per the other comments in this thread, I'm hanging onto the manual mills. I got them cheap, and now cleaned up, tool'd and running - would probably fetch even less! Several years ago I added onto the shop, so now I've got room for the VMC.
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David C. Lathes: Enterprise 1550, Smart & Brown 1024, Mills: Maho MH 600 x2, Cinci Toolmaster, Kasto hacksaw PSB 210, Grinders: Cinc#2 T&C, Ingar 618 SG all but the first came as projects, now they support an endless list of more projects. Good thing I have a day job!
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RussellCofIdaho
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Re: Why not to Buy Cheap Jet CNC Mill?

Post by RussellCofIdaho »

That looks like a great professional setup Dave C!

I am very much on the smaller end of the scale- upgrading from a Smithy 12-22TC purchased used. 1/2 horsepower motor and ‘wiggly-jiggly’ tolerance!

I once was machining a special screw, couldn’t get less that 15 thousandths runnout on the stock 3-jaw, have it a good whack with my hand, within 4 thousandths, perfect!

So it really depends on your needs.

I am working on ‘large industrial’ (non-scale model) 7 1/2” gauge trains currently, my favorite size is 18” gauge but I just don’t have the room currently.

I have some ideas for complex machined parts for O and F scale trains that I want to pursue to help pay for my larger scale hobbies that will really require CNC to be effective so I am hoping to upgrade to the ShopMasterUSA MillTurn (or whatever they call it now). Seems to be the only option in the under $15k CNC space. I bought my Smithy as a trade in from John at ShopMasterUSA in 1998 or so.

I don’t want to go smaller than about 2 horsepower because I hope to upgrade to 18” gauge steam someday and machining a 150 pound part on a machine that weighs less than 1000 pounds is going to be a slow order for sure...
Russell Courtenay
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WesHowe
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Re: Why not to Buy Cheap Jet CNC Mill?

Post by WesHowe »

I'm in late on this, but a Tormach PCNC 440 can be had for about $8K, without the ATC, stand and enclosure. I built my stand from 2x2 angle steel, and enclosure from 2x2 and flat aluminum pieces held together with 1/4"-20 bolts (transparent shower liner material for sides until I spring for plexiglass). Yes, the work envelope is smaller (10x6.25x10) but I can do the larger parts on my RF45.

Engraving has been my main focus on this machine, and I have found .001" variation in planarity makes a huge difference in how attractive the finished work is. Workholding can introduce a .001" bow, so you have to be careful on your setups. I've had a lot of fun getting this all going, and learning to write macro CNC programs instead of just copying something over from Fusion 360. One difference is, I am not actively marketing capabilities to run a business, or maybe I would be eyeing a Haas VMC. The Tormach will do the same thing, only slower with more limitations.
Eoinfork
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Re: Why not to Buy Cheap Jet CNC Mill?

Post by Eoinfork »

I recently purchase a mini Mill of Jet. Model :- 350017.
My insights for this Mill is it features a one-piece cast iron column that is extremely durable and tough. There’s also 1 HP motor that is powerful enough to work on heavy duty materials as smoothly as the lighter ones.
Overall its good product to purchase but its just bit expensive as compare to other.
Also i would recommend you to read this article to know better about other JET mills or other mills as its help me
https://theedgecutter.com/best-mini-mills

You can also read its Safety measures
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Adirondack
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Re: Why not to Buy Cheap Jet CNC Mill?

Post by Adirondack »

Am I the only person who thinks spending $30-50k on a mill for home use is just crazy? Are any of you actually using the capabilities these machines possess often enough to warrant such an expenditure?

I know I am FRUGAL, but damn guys...

Chris
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Bill Shields
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Re: Why not to Buy Cheap Jet CNC Mill?

Post by Bill Shields »

i wish i had ONLY spent 5X that amount on my home shop....and yes, my CNC mill is worth every penny...and wish that I had spent a bit more (which I did not have at the time).

some people purchase fancy cars / trucks...others spend $100K on building steam locos.

it's a hobby and (fortunately) does not always have to be justified in any terms other than 'sanity maintenance'.
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
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Harold_V
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Re: Why not to Buy Cheap Jet CNC Mill?

Post by Harold_V »

I agree. What one spends on a hobby may not make sense to others, but it's the reward one earns through a lifetime of hard work and dedication.
It makes little sense to consider the years of effort and endless dollars I've spent in putting together my not so humble shop, but I make no apology to anyone. I earned what I have, and it has been the source of considerable pleasure for me. It provides a reason for me to get out of bed each day---and is a source of entertainment that can't be duplicated.

Sure--it has been expensive. Damned expensive, in fact, but then a psychiatrist wouldn't have been cheap, either.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
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Bill Shields
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Re: Why not to Buy Cheap Jet CNC Mill?

Post by Bill Shields »

Remember.. a case of wine is cheaper than psychotherapy.

A shop full of tools is cheaper than a rest home
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
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Steggy
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Re: Why not to Buy Cheap Jet CNC Mill?

Post by Steggy »

Bill Shields wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:52 pmA shop full of tools is cheaper than a rest home.
...and much safer these days. :D
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BClemens
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Re: Why not to Buy Cheap Jet CNC Mill?

Post by BClemens »

Converted an Enco knee mill back about 2003 to CNC using Mach. Studied and tried not to go cheap on anything to do with the conversion. It still runs to this day very well. The lead screws were converted to preloaded ball screws except Z which didn't have room for preload ball nuts - never an issue. The basic mill was the compromise - too small - 8 x 30. Wish I had chosen a larger mill. The drives are all servo motors (Litton) and driven by Gecko 320's (dates me and the machine they're now legacy) and BB by Bob Campbell. Did I say that this conversion is still working to this day...!

Added a digitizing probe and the A axis (rotational) and need more room for what this machine can do.

I have shown some of this CNC conversion work with it over the past few years here. Made a tool steel Southern Valve Link for a 2-6-0 in 2 1/2" scale times two.

If you want to go fully CNC then just do it but choose what you want for a machine first - money talks. Artsoft is still active but there are other machine drive software's out there - that can use windows with 'fix' or linux - which has a full machine system too.

BClemens
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Bill Shields
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Re: Why not to Buy Cheap Jet CNC Mill?

Post by Bill Shields »

I started with an old Bridgeport NC mill that weighs best part of 2 tons..with a 24" x 48" table..an old Series 2.

Is ok and got it for $ of hauling it off.

Low end iron is worst non-investment you can make.

Some jet machines are (used to be) reasonable machines...but there is no substitute for heavy iron..
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
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