Gentlemen,
You are all too kind!
Your comments are most appreciated.
Regards,
Andy
Forming boiler sheets for three 3/4-in. scale Virginias
Re: Forming boiler sheets for three 3/4-in. scale Virginias
Beautiful creation!
RussN
RussN
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Pontiacguy1
- Posts: 1572
- Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:15 am
- Location: Tennessee, USA
Re: Forming boiler sheets for three 3/4-in. scale Virginias
That's sharp! I like it a lot. One of these days I shall attempt a copper boiler... one of these days...
Re: Forming boiler sheets for three 3/4-in. scale Virginias
Andy,
I don't know how I managed to miss this thread entirely, but I certainly echo all of the compliments expressed by most everyone so far. I've always employed extra measures to insure proper form, fit, and alignment, but you've taken the forming process it to a new level.
I know what you mean about photos . . . no matter the best of my intentions to photograph every step of certain projects, when the need comes to pull out a photo to illustrate "how I did that", the crucial photo is missing . . usually because in the busy-ness of that work session I probably decided that's enough photos.
I don't know how I managed to miss this thread entirely, but I certainly echo all of the compliments expressed by most everyone so far. I've always employed extra measures to insure proper form, fit, and alignment, but you've taken the forming process it to a new level.
I know what you mean about photos . . . no matter the best of my intentions to photograph every step of certain projects, when the need comes to pull out a photo to illustrate "how I did that", the crucial photo is missing . . usually because in the busy-ness of that work session I probably decided that's enough photos.
GWRdriver
Nashville TN
Nashville TN
Re: Forming boiler sheets for three 3/4-in. scale Virginias
Andy...the Virginia looks great!
Will the 2 - 1/2” gauge Coventry B&O P-7 be your next project?
Keith
Will the 2 - 1/2” gauge Coventry B&O P-7 be your next project?
Keith
next 3/4-in. scale project
I am humbled by your comments gentlemen!
Many Thanks!
Keith, John McKnight has the 2.5-in gauge B&O P7 project.
My next 3/4-in scale project will be to finish the B&O P7. I plan to work on it and the3/4-in scale Docksider at the same time.
Up next will be a list of the changes made to LBSC's big-boiler Virginia, not all of which have been previously documented.
Regards,
Andy
Many Thanks!
Keith, John McKnight has the 2.5-in gauge B&O P7 project.
My next 3/4-in scale project will be to finish the B&O P7. I plan to work on it and the3/4-in scale Docksider at the same time.
Up next will be a list of the changes made to LBSC's big-boiler Virginia, not all of which have been previously documented.
Regards,
Andy
Some changes to LBSC's 3/4-in. scale Virginias
Some things that I did differently:
1. I redesigned the quadrant, and posted about it in the thread “LBSC Virginia Plans”: https://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/vi ... 8&start=48
2. I had to redesign the rocker for the Stevenson motion, and posted in the same thread.
3. I made the throttle stand/support long enough to clear the dome flanges and posted about also in the same thread.
4. I had a lot of fabrication difficulties with the superheater and found 90-degree factory-made 1/4-in. copper tube fittings that solved the challenge and posted about it in the same thread too. Looking back, I don’t know why this info is so scattered. Maybe I have been working on the loco too long?
5. I made and soldered bronze bushings for all boiler fittings.
6. I made a petticoat as part of the stack liner. It was surprisingly easy in copper.
7. I made my own firebox support which allows both expansion and contraction, along with gravity and lifting support. A picture is included in the thread mentioned above.
8. I made the smokebox the same diameter as the boiler. I had started with a 3.5-inch diameter brass tube for the smokebox, but it looked too small. I found a little more of the same 4-inch copper pipe as the boiler and cut a new smokebox and ring from that copper pipe. That also required re-making the smokebox saddle.
9. The entire boiler sits 1/8-inch higher than planned in order to clear the rear axle for the blowdown. If I had given it more thought, a different solution would have resulted in a little more “squat” locomotive (i.e. the firebox not as deep as shown on LBSC’s plan).
10. I lagged the boiler with 1/16-inch thick cork sheet, then wrapped it with 22-gauge steel. The handrail posts were then threaded into the sheet instead of the boiler as LBSC suggested. I painted the inside of the sheet silver to reflect the heat back to the boiler, and the outside with 6 coats of a 2-part gun-blue enamel to imitate Russia iron. It’s the same that Jack Bodenmann used on the 4-4-0 recently finished.
11. I had of course already made the smokebox front for the 3.5-inch tube and needed to make a new one for the 4-inch one. Having previously built a Raritan and liked it (a lot!) I purchased another smokebox front casting from Joe Tanski. I “prettied it up” with 1-inch scale smokebox dogs from Patrick Ledbetter.
12. When silver soldering the boiler, I included threaded nipples for the check valves, and that allowed Bill Morewood style (Raritan) check valves to be fabricated and installed. And I placed the injector check valve next to the port axle-pump check at the front of the boiler. LBSC showed it adjacent to the firebox!
13. I had hoped that Barry Hague would produce ¾-in scale safety valves. See the thread here: https://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/vi ... 30&t=97962
Even Anthony Duarte considered making some. He even showed a prototype to us at RLS a few years ago. But I decided not to wait any longer. I made the safety valves per LBSC’s plans, and although they work, are huge, and quite ugly. Instead, I made and installed Bill Morewood style (Raritan) safety valves.
14. I used a K-B (Charles Kennion) injector (I have had it for at least 20 years) instead of making LBSC’s injector – mostly to save time. My father made the LBSC injector for his small boiler Virginia and it works, and I have the reamers that he made, but there are other things to do and not a lot of time. I could not find anything regarding the K-B’s ability to lift, so placed it below the running boards where it could get water by gravity from the tender.
15. I supported the running boards from brackets attached to the crosshead supports, instead of from the boiler. If I had thought about it when first starting the frame, I could have imitated Bill Morewood’s design and combined the crosshead support and the running board brackets in one fabrication.
16. I made my own cab design. The LBSC design bears very little resemblance to American practice. I made a number of mockups from file-folder paper and tape, and ended up spray-painting the final concept to be able to confirm its appearance.
17. I made my own manifold design. It incorporates elements of LBSC, Bill Morewood, and Kozo Hiraoka’s designs.
18. I made a 4-post sight glass, using ½-inch diameter glass (the type with a red line bordered by white lines). It is SO MUCH EASIER to see.
19. I included a whistle. LBSC assumes that you have a copy of his Shop, Shed and Road book which has a design with a sound chamber. I made a pair over 20 years ago, and finally got to install it. It is tucked inside the cab on the port side, and painted black, so it is well hidden. It sounds a lot better than the popcorn whistles. Dad’s small-boiler version has one too.
1. I redesigned the quadrant, and posted about it in the thread “LBSC Virginia Plans”: https://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/vi ... 8&start=48
2. I had to redesign the rocker for the Stevenson motion, and posted in the same thread.
3. I made the throttle stand/support long enough to clear the dome flanges and posted about also in the same thread.
4. I had a lot of fabrication difficulties with the superheater and found 90-degree factory-made 1/4-in. copper tube fittings that solved the challenge and posted about it in the same thread too. Looking back, I don’t know why this info is so scattered. Maybe I have been working on the loco too long?
5. I made and soldered bronze bushings for all boiler fittings.
6. I made a petticoat as part of the stack liner. It was surprisingly easy in copper.
7. I made my own firebox support which allows both expansion and contraction, along with gravity and lifting support. A picture is included in the thread mentioned above.
8. I made the smokebox the same diameter as the boiler. I had started with a 3.5-inch diameter brass tube for the smokebox, but it looked too small. I found a little more of the same 4-inch copper pipe as the boiler and cut a new smokebox and ring from that copper pipe. That also required re-making the smokebox saddle.
9. The entire boiler sits 1/8-inch higher than planned in order to clear the rear axle for the blowdown. If I had given it more thought, a different solution would have resulted in a little more “squat” locomotive (i.e. the firebox not as deep as shown on LBSC’s plan).
10. I lagged the boiler with 1/16-inch thick cork sheet, then wrapped it with 22-gauge steel. The handrail posts were then threaded into the sheet instead of the boiler as LBSC suggested. I painted the inside of the sheet silver to reflect the heat back to the boiler, and the outside with 6 coats of a 2-part gun-blue enamel to imitate Russia iron. It’s the same that Jack Bodenmann used on the 4-4-0 recently finished.
11. I had of course already made the smokebox front for the 3.5-inch tube and needed to make a new one for the 4-inch one. Having previously built a Raritan and liked it (a lot!) I purchased another smokebox front casting from Joe Tanski. I “prettied it up” with 1-inch scale smokebox dogs from Patrick Ledbetter.
12. When silver soldering the boiler, I included threaded nipples for the check valves, and that allowed Bill Morewood style (Raritan) check valves to be fabricated and installed. And I placed the injector check valve next to the port axle-pump check at the front of the boiler. LBSC showed it adjacent to the firebox!
13. I had hoped that Barry Hague would produce ¾-in scale safety valves. See the thread here: https://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/vi ... 30&t=97962
Even Anthony Duarte considered making some. He even showed a prototype to us at RLS a few years ago. But I decided not to wait any longer. I made the safety valves per LBSC’s plans, and although they work, are huge, and quite ugly. Instead, I made and installed Bill Morewood style (Raritan) safety valves.
14. I used a K-B (Charles Kennion) injector (I have had it for at least 20 years) instead of making LBSC’s injector – mostly to save time. My father made the LBSC injector for his small boiler Virginia and it works, and I have the reamers that he made, but there are other things to do and not a lot of time. I could not find anything regarding the K-B’s ability to lift, so placed it below the running boards where it could get water by gravity from the tender.
15. I supported the running boards from brackets attached to the crosshead supports, instead of from the boiler. If I had thought about it when first starting the frame, I could have imitated Bill Morewood’s design and combined the crosshead support and the running board brackets in one fabrication.
16. I made my own cab design. The LBSC design bears very little resemblance to American practice. I made a number of mockups from file-folder paper and tape, and ended up spray-painting the final concept to be able to confirm its appearance.
17. I made my own manifold design. It incorporates elements of LBSC, Bill Morewood, and Kozo Hiraoka’s designs.
18. I made a 4-post sight glass, using ½-inch diameter glass (the type with a red line bordered by white lines). It is SO MUCH EASIER to see.
19. I included a whistle. LBSC assumes that you have a copy of his Shop, Shed and Road book which has a design with a sound chamber. I made a pair over 20 years ago, and finally got to install it. It is tucked inside the cab on the port side, and painted black, so it is well hidden. It sounds a lot better than the popcorn whistles. Dad’s small-boiler version has one too.
Last edited by Andy R on Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: next 3/4-in. scale project
Andy.....I knew there was a B&O P-7 somewhere in your shop.....I just forgot which scale!Andy R wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:27 pm I am humbled by your comments gentlemen!
Many Thanks!
Keith, John McKnight has the 2.5-in gauge B&O P7 project.
My next 3/4-in scale project will be to finish the B&O P7. I plan to work on it and the3/4-in scale Docksider at the same time.
Up next will be a list of the changes made to LBSC's big-boiler Virginia, not all of which have been previously documented.
Regards,
Andy
Keith
some things to do differently for 3/4-in. scale Virginia
Some things that I might have done differently if I had started with today’s experiences:
1. Mentioned earlier – draw the thing full size and include cross sections (transverse to the locomotive axis) and plan views.
2. I took my own advice and started with the tender. It sat on the shelf for over a decade. The design by LBSC reflects modern practice, but for a 1900-era 4-4-0, a lower height tender would have been just as appropriate. A good starting point would be to make the small boiler version, but with 3/4-inch higher sides.
3. Arch bar trucks would look nice. I built a pair of the ones offered by Jack Bodenmann, but they are allocated to a different project.
4. Since starting the build I have looked at hundreds of photos of 4-4-0’s and have been amazed at the diversity. Most around 1900 had knuckle couplers, and if re-doing the loco those would be something to consider. I have 4 pair of Jack’s couplers tucked away somewhere.
5. I would omit the superheater. In Charles S. Purinton’s book “Live Steam of Years Gone By” Parker Kemble is quoted as saying that “All the work involved in the making, testing and installing of the superheater would enable you, for the same amount of coal and water that a saturated engine would use, to carry a small wrench in your hip pocket.” I agree.
6. Omission of the superheater also allows lowering the crown sheet to about the mid-height of the boiler – increasing the available steam space. All tubes would be the same diameter.
7. My dad encouraged me to buy the one-piece casting for the pilot. It was a much more coarse casting than the elegant one purchased in 1976 by my grandfather that ultimately went on my Dad’s Virginia. In retrospect, considering the huge amount of cleanup time needed for the casting, I would fabricate the pilot instead.
8. LBSC included a design for the Walschaerts valve gear. I would now check it with Charles Dockstader’s valve gear program, then make and install it instead of the Stevenson’s gear. My 1:1 hands are too big for Stevenson valve gear adjustment in size 1/16 full.
9. With no superheater in the smokebox, the smokebox could be about one inch shorter, resulting in a more pleasing appearance for the locomotive.
1. Mentioned earlier – draw the thing full size and include cross sections (transverse to the locomotive axis) and plan views.
2. I took my own advice and started with the tender. It sat on the shelf for over a decade. The design by LBSC reflects modern practice, but for a 1900-era 4-4-0, a lower height tender would have been just as appropriate. A good starting point would be to make the small boiler version, but with 3/4-inch higher sides.
3. Arch bar trucks would look nice. I built a pair of the ones offered by Jack Bodenmann, but they are allocated to a different project.
4. Since starting the build I have looked at hundreds of photos of 4-4-0’s and have been amazed at the diversity. Most around 1900 had knuckle couplers, and if re-doing the loco those would be something to consider. I have 4 pair of Jack’s couplers tucked away somewhere.
5. I would omit the superheater. In Charles S. Purinton’s book “Live Steam of Years Gone By” Parker Kemble is quoted as saying that “All the work involved in the making, testing and installing of the superheater would enable you, for the same amount of coal and water that a saturated engine would use, to carry a small wrench in your hip pocket.” I agree.
6. Omission of the superheater also allows lowering the crown sheet to about the mid-height of the boiler – increasing the available steam space. All tubes would be the same diameter.
7. My dad encouraged me to buy the one-piece casting for the pilot. It was a much more coarse casting than the elegant one purchased in 1976 by my grandfather that ultimately went on my Dad’s Virginia. In retrospect, considering the huge amount of cleanup time needed for the casting, I would fabricate the pilot instead.
8. LBSC included a design for the Walschaerts valve gear. I would now check it with Charles Dockstader’s valve gear program, then make and install it instead of the Stevenson’s gear. My 1:1 hands are too big for Stevenson valve gear adjustment in size 1/16 full.
9. With no superheater in the smokebox, the smokebox could be about one inch shorter, resulting in a more pleasing appearance for the locomotive.
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Pontiacguy1
- Posts: 1572
- Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:15 am
- Location: Tennessee, USA
Re: Forming boiler sheets for three 3/4-in. scale Virginias
I think those trucks look good and totally appropriate under your tender. So many locomotives had upgrades and swap-outs as far as tenders go, it's pretty hard to come up with a tender/locomotive combination that didn't happen at some point somewhere, especially if you are freelancing. You would rarely find an older-style tender behind a newer locomotive, but it was very common to find newer style tenders fitted behind older locomotives. Railroads often had excess tenders once a series of locomotives were scrapped or upgraded, and they would often put them behind their older, smaller power. If a locomotive from the 1800s made it into the 1920's or 30's, it was often with a different tender than it started with. I like the look of yours myself.
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JBodenmann
- Posts: 3865
- Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 1:37 pm
- Location: Tehachapi, California
Re: Forming boiler sheets for three 3/4-in. scale Virginias
Hello My Friends
Isn't Andy's American the Cat's Meow! I have been fortunate to see his progress in person over the years. That copper boiler is a thing of beauty and in a way it's a shame to cover it up. But we must do as we must do. Hopefully it will get some test running in here at the Alcalde & Coalfield. Too much fun!
Jack
Isn't Andy's American the Cat's Meow! I have been fortunate to see his progress in person over the years. That copper boiler is a thing of beauty and in a way it's a shame to cover it up. But we must do as we must do. Hopefully it will get some test running in here at the Alcalde & Coalfield. Too much fun!
Jack
A headlamp for 3/4-in. scale Virginia
I made a master from styrene of a rectangular-body oil headlight for the big-boiler Virginia.
It is a model of a "standard" 19-inch headlamp - no reflector yet.
I gave it to Jack Bodenmann who made the mold, poured the waxes and sent them to the brass foundry.
This is the result:
My wife and adult daughter like it.
It is a model of a "standard" 19-inch headlamp - no reflector yet.
I gave it to Jack Bodenmann who made the mold, poured the waxes and sent them to the brass foundry.
This is the result: