Sweet Creek Mogul Boiler Question

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JR May
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Sweet Creek Mogul Boiler Question

Post by JR May »

Any RMI Sweet Creek mogul builders or owners who may need a new code boiler? I stumbled onto what I think is a boiler for a Sweet Creek and before I try to make some kind of use for it, thought I would see if someone might have a need for it. I have the NBIC paperwork for it. Happy to work with someone who has a drawing to confirm it's for a Sweet Creek.

My email is jrmay@monmouth.com

Thanks,
J.R.
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Re: Sweet Creek Mogul Boiler Question

Post by 0351 »

Email sent
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JR May
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Re: Sweet Creek Mogul Boiler Question

Post by JR May »

To modify the boiler to meet my needs looks to be cost prohibitive. It's too long by about six inches. Can’t win. If someone would like to buy it, let me know. Open to offers. It’s located in Cheyenne, WY at the moment but at some point it will be moved to NJ.
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Berkman
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Re: Sweet Creek Mogul Boiler Question

Post by Berkman »

If it was from the John Rimmasch/Wasatch auction, who knows what you got, or what kind of construction/material issues there might be. Surely with something that's smaller and more simple like a 7.5 gauge sized boiler it would be alright, but his track record for screwing up full size projects is like quite high.
JR May
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Re: Sweet Creek Mogul Boiler Question

Post by JR May »

That is true, but I did go and find the paper work and confirmed that it was inspected and signed off on by the Colorado boiler inspector. The attached inspection sheet shows the inspection trail of the construction of the boiler.

To me the difference is state versus federal inspections - state can be much more strict, certainly here in NJ it comes across that way.

I'm open to offers based on who built it.

J.R.
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Bill Shields
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Re: Sweet Creek Mogul Boiler Question

Post by Bill Shields »

If it falls into the range where it must be inspected by the state in which it will be run...then you eventually gotta deal with them... irrespective of where the boiler was built.

I bump into this reality any time I think about running at CALS in the Baltimore MD area.

Cannot avoid the MD inspection.

It is not like the FRA where you are dealing with interstate commerce regulations, who trump the deck on Class 1 railway operation.
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Glenn Brooks
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Re: Sweet Creek Mogul Boiler Question

Post by Glenn Brooks »

J.r. Is offering a screaming deal here. The boiler has passed state inspection, has all the NBIC welding process check offs, passed the hydrotest, and was manufactured and certified as a code boiler before Wasatch started falling down the rabbit hole. I just don’t see the problem here…

And, FWIW, Every boiler in the country has to be initially inspected and passed by a state boiler inspector, before first operation in that state (except Alabama- apparently there are no rules in Alabama.)

The key here is to simply do a normal buyers inspection and then decide whether or not it serves your propose. Personally Iam hoping JR decides to keep it and build up a nice 15” gauge Chole of similar saddleback sugar cane loco. Then maybe I can persuade him to sell it to me…

Glenn
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Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

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Dick_Morris
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Re: Sweet Creek Mogul Boiler Question

Post by Dick_Morris »

Every boiler in the country has to be initially inspected and passed by a state boiler inspector
This probably requires some clarification or disclaimers. My recollection is that in Alaska a miniature boiler is defined by the state using the same description as used by the ASME for miniature boilers. If it falls within the definition, it is exempt from following the code. I'm not aware of any state inspections for this class of boiler. I believe several other states have a similar exemption.
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JR May
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Re: Sweet Creek Mogul Boiler Question

Post by JR May »

Really need some clarification here. Both Glenn and I tend to be around boilers that are larger than the typical live steam boiler and, in my case, public running. Here in NJ, over some minimal square feet of heating surface and a state inspection is required if running in public. A Cagney sized locomotive, for public operation, requires a state inspection using the NBIC as a guide and then as is a minimum a Black Seal high pressure boiler license.

The Sweet Creek falls within kind of a grey area – a live steamer, but with a sizeable boiler. I am not sure what the live steam club requirements are, but for public running in NJ this size boiler would require a state inspection and a license to operate it.

Interestingly, the boiler on my 15” gauge Herschell, with its lap seam, is legal in NJ but then not legal in some other states.

Anyway, what we have here is a Wasatch built boiler, built to code, state inspected, and that there is a paper trail for, but the performance of the design is not known off hand. We know that Wasatch built at least four of these boilers for RMI. Code boilers for the Sweet Creek were built by others as well. RMI shows the price to buy such a boiler was about $9K if I read their web site correctly, but not sure if that was for a water leg boiler or not.

At some point, the interest grew to build a true water leg boiler for the Sweet Creek. At least two companies took a crack at it so there was some calling for a code boiler.

The boiler is too long for my purposes by a few inches. To have it shortened by a code shop is roughly $5K but that includes adding a fusible plug which is required in NJ. Seems like a good part of the price is to pay for the inspections while the boiler is modified.

I did see where there was a Sweet Creek thread here in Chaski many years ago but then fizzled.

Anyway, hope this clarifies things a bit.

J.R. May
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Bill Shields
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Re: Sweet Creek Mogul Boiler Question

Post by Bill Shields »

Generally, if the state requires something, it matters not what the club rules are....unless the club rules are more restrictive ,-> in which the state rules apply THEN the club rules take over ( which is rare).

If you violate State rules and heaven forbid someone gets hurt (or an inspector shows up), as Jackie Gleason used to say "you in heap big trouble".
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Glenn Brooks
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Re: Sweet Creek Mogul Boiler Question

Post by Glenn Brooks »

Interesting discussion. Washington was the first state to pass a hobby boiler code some years ago. At that time (1980’s maybe)Kitsap Live Steamers worked with the State boiler inspector office to draft an exemption for annual state inspection of hobby use boilers. This to relieve the state boiler inspector’s annual work load - and to focus their available staff time on insuring safe commercial boiler operation. KLS and the State Boiler inspectors office worked with the state legislature to pass enabling legislation that exempted hobby locomotives from the annual state inspection requirement.

However, to qualify for the exemption, in Washington, each locomotive is required to pass a one time, initial state certification process. Once certified, the boiler is then “legal” to operate in perpetuity, within the state, including being used to give rides to passengers as part of sanctioned club run days, etc. KLS continues to conduct annual boiler safety inspections, and keeps records of such, but state boiler inspectors are not part of the process. I understand this is the case also, in many of the States that have adopted Washington’s model hobby code language.

As I remember, our hobby boiler code also allows privately operated boilers, e.g. private, backyard railways, with no initial stated inspection or annual safety check. However, if that loco were to be run in a public club track, it would then be required to pass the initial state inspection and be subject to annual club safety checks, so long as it was run in club RoW.

I suspect originally, my statement was overly broad. I believe a handful of states have not adopted any form of hobby boiler exemption; while some others have modified their hobby code language to require different set of conditions/ boiler capacity than specified in Washington’s model code.

There Could be quite a few variations in the inspection and exemption process amongst the various states….

Glenn
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Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
srrl5
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Re: Sweet Creek Mogul Boiler Question

Post by srrl5 »

That is a Sweet Creek boiler that RMI returned because they determined it was unserviceable. The firebox was placed so high in the shell that the crown sheet was in contact with the outer wrapper. Also the rear flue sheet was about 2" higher then the front flue sheet so the flues were not square to the sheets. The boiler was test fired. With a 1/4 glass of water at idle when you kicked up the fire, because the water on the sides of the firebox could not go up over the crown it all flowed to the backhead and the water level in the waterglass would disappear out the top of the glass so you had no idea of the water level in the boiler.

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