Newbie looking for sources
Newbie looking for sources
Hello all,
I'm a newbie to the live steam hobby, and am hungry for information. So all other topics aside, if anyone has advice for starting in 1.6" scale, it'd be greatly appreciated.
Currently I'm focusing on plans and research on what to build and a long term project I'm hoping to start once I'm actually competent and have built at least one engine, probably an Allen Models Consolidation, but that may change greatly.
I suppose the main thing I'm looking for help and advice with is just source information on parts and how they work, and how they're built! I know the basics of steam locomotives, but the more I look the more I realize how much more there is. I'm good with math and physics, so it all makes sense and is fascinating, but being an old and mostly unused technology, sources can be sparse on the internet. So if anyone has advice, sources, books to recommend (especially if there's a detailed book on innovations with steam locomotives and rolling stock!), or other such things.
Also my long term hope/project... I realize most people from on a newbie planning big, but that's why this will be back burner research material for most likely 10+ years.. I want to build a 1.6" scale Great Northern 2-8-8-0 N-1 class locomotive. I have some minor details on it, some technical specifications, and that they were built in 1912 by Baldwin, but I'm hoping to find something bigger. Drawings would be incredible, if they exist... And I know some Baldwin documents have survived, but I suppose my main question is... Where can I find what remains, and does anyone know how substantial the remaining stuff is? I expect the worst and hope for the best.
Anyways, thanks to anyone who reads and/or replies,
-JW
I'm a newbie to the live steam hobby, and am hungry for information. So all other topics aside, if anyone has advice for starting in 1.6" scale, it'd be greatly appreciated.
Currently I'm focusing on plans and research on what to build and a long term project I'm hoping to start once I'm actually competent and have built at least one engine, probably an Allen Models Consolidation, but that may change greatly.
I suppose the main thing I'm looking for help and advice with is just source information on parts and how they work, and how they're built! I know the basics of steam locomotives, but the more I look the more I realize how much more there is. I'm good with math and physics, so it all makes sense and is fascinating, but being an old and mostly unused technology, sources can be sparse on the internet. So if anyone has advice, sources, books to recommend (especially if there's a detailed book on innovations with steam locomotives and rolling stock!), or other such things.
Also my long term hope/project... I realize most people from on a newbie planning big, but that's why this will be back burner research material for most likely 10+ years.. I want to build a 1.6" scale Great Northern 2-8-8-0 N-1 class locomotive. I have some minor details on it, some technical specifications, and that they were built in 1912 by Baldwin, but I'm hoping to find something bigger. Drawings would be incredible, if they exist... And I know some Baldwin documents have survived, but I suppose my main question is... Where can I find what remains, and does anyone know how substantial the remaining stuff is? I expect the worst and hope for the best.
Anyways, thanks to anyone who reads and/or replies,
-JW
Re: Newbie looking for sources
The first bit of advice I can give you, and I think you will hear this from a lot of hobbyists, is to join a live steam club if you have one near you. You will gain valuable insight by talking with people, and learning from them....in my 40 plus years of live steam, I can attest to the fact, that when "newbies" as you say, ..show a genuine interest, hang around at the track, volunteer to do track work and ask questions ...somebody tends to "take them under the wing".....and help them along.....I know I've done it.....so, hook up with a club if you can, you'll be surprised how fast you'll get help
Re: Newbie looking for sources
Josiah,
Any machining experience? Any machinery? If you're planning on making your own, might want to tool up. I am building an Allen models Fitchburg and while I share your enthusiasm on building one, I can attest to the amount of work needed. If you don't have machining skills, or don't want to build your own might start saving your $$ now. A functioning steamer will be on the low side 10K's and go on up from there. Not to say you can't make one without any skills, but it will be a long and winding road. There's not much more than simple turning and milling with some fab and sheet metal work thrown in to make one, but if you don't have the experience I'd say start with something a little less intimidating. Maybe a small casting kit of a steam engine. If you've not worked with castings there is definitely a learning curve and you will not want to try your first machining job on several thousands of $$ on castings. You will only become frustrated and probably end up with a pile of parts you just want to sell. Sometimes you can find someone who has given up on their dream and will sell you what they have for a reasonable price. Not trying to bust your dream, but keep it realistic. Keep the dream but develop a plan to make it happen, even if it takes 10 plus years.
I would check out the books by Koza Hiraoka as they detail the builds of a few trains from absolute start to finish. They run about $50 or so new, but you can sometimes catch them on feebay from time to time. Also thru Amazon. If you get the books it will give you a good idea of the materials needed, and the cost of them. And lately material prices are skyrocketing so be prepared.
https://secure.villagepress.com/store/i ... l/item/844
Discover Live Steam is also another very good source of info. They also have a for sales section that would give you a good idea of what a steamer will run you if you just bought one.
https://discoverlivesteam.com/
Keep learning,
Martin
Any machining experience? Any machinery? If you're planning on making your own, might want to tool up. I am building an Allen models Fitchburg and while I share your enthusiasm on building one, I can attest to the amount of work needed. If you don't have machining skills, or don't want to build your own might start saving your $$ now. A functioning steamer will be on the low side 10K's and go on up from there. Not to say you can't make one without any skills, but it will be a long and winding road. There's not much more than simple turning and milling with some fab and sheet metal work thrown in to make one, but if you don't have the experience I'd say start with something a little less intimidating. Maybe a small casting kit of a steam engine. If you've not worked with castings there is definitely a learning curve and you will not want to try your first machining job on several thousands of $$ on castings. You will only become frustrated and probably end up with a pile of parts you just want to sell. Sometimes you can find someone who has given up on their dream and will sell you what they have for a reasonable price. Not trying to bust your dream, but keep it realistic. Keep the dream but develop a plan to make it happen, even if it takes 10 plus years.
I would check out the books by Koza Hiraoka as they detail the builds of a few trains from absolute start to finish. They run about $50 or so new, but you can sometimes catch them on feebay from time to time. Also thru Amazon. If you get the books it will give you a good idea of the materials needed, and the cost of them. And lately material prices are skyrocketing so be prepared.
https://secure.villagepress.com/store/i ... l/item/844
Discover Live Steam is also another very good source of info. They also have a for sales section that would give you a good idea of what a steamer will run you if you just bought one.
https://discoverlivesteam.com/
Keep learning,
Martin
Re: Newbie looking for sources
Thanks for the comments, both of you!
I looked into clubs in the area and unfortunately haven't found any yet. If anyone knows of one near Boise, Idaho, please let me know.
I'm in a model train club, we do HO and N scale stuff, and the guys there are extremely helpful. I haven't been there long, but I hope/assume I'll be able to get some decent help from them, even if they don't have direct Live Steam experience.
I have no machining experience whatsoever! I understand a lot and have a high aptitude for tinkering and mechanical stuff to the point where physics and engineering classes may be in my future, but machining will be a long road for me. Especially since I may get into casting as well!
I'm probably insane, but I already knew that.
I'll check out those book, they look fantastic! I was definitely thinking about making smaller models to begin with, maybe even small stationary steam engines, set up with locomotive valve gear and such so I can practice timing and fine tuning of parts and design.
And yes, I know an N-1 class is a big dream. It may very well stay that way, that's why I'm starting smaller. I don't want to burn out before completion.
-JW
I looked into clubs in the area and unfortunately haven't found any yet. If anyone knows of one near Boise, Idaho, please let me know.
I'm in a model train club, we do HO and N scale stuff, and the guys there are extremely helpful. I haven't been there long, but I hope/assume I'll be able to get some decent help from them, even if they don't have direct Live Steam experience.
I have no machining experience whatsoever! I understand a lot and have a high aptitude for tinkering and mechanical stuff to the point where physics and engineering classes may be in my future, but machining will be a long road for me. Especially since I may get into casting as well!
I'm probably insane, but I already knew that.
I'll check out those book, they look fantastic! I was definitely thinking about making smaller models to begin with, maybe even small stationary steam engines, set up with locomotive valve gear and such so I can practice timing and fine tuning of parts and design.
And yes, I know an N-1 class is a big dream. It may very well stay that way, that's why I'm starting smaller. I don't want to burn out before completion.
-JW
- Bill Shields
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Re: Newbie looking for sources
If you have no machining experience then your intended project N1 as a early project is no no no no no a 1000 times no.
Stop and think about size, weight and transportation of a loco that size..
Stop and think about size, weight and transportation of a loco that size..
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
Re: Newbie looking for sources
I know. That's why I said it'll be a long time.. A Decade at least. And after I get a lot more experience. Before than even starts. It's mostly research and curiosity at this point.Bill Shields wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:17 pm If you have no machining experience then your intended project N1 as a early project is no no no no no a 1000 times no.
Stop and think about size, weight and transportation of a loco that size..
- Greg_Lewis
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Re: Newbie looking for sources
I echo the advice of Kozo Hiraoka's books. Also "So You Want To Build A Live Steam Locomotive" by Joe Nelson, and "Model and Miniature Locomotive Construction" by Stan Bray.
You also mentioned an Allen Models engine. This would be an excellent choice. These designs are well proven, many have been built, they aren't all that hard to build, and the castings are reasonably priced and available.
You also mentioned an Allen Models engine. This would be an excellent choice. These designs are well proven, many have been built, they aren't all that hard to build, and the castings are reasonably priced and available.
Greg Lewis, Prop.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 35 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 35 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.
Re: Newbie looking for sources
I'll add those to my book list, thanks!Greg_Lewis wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:40 pm I echo the advice of Kozo Hiraoka's books. Also "So You Want To Build A Live Steam Locomotive" by Joe Nelson, and "Model and Miniature Locomotive Construction" by Stan Bray.
You also mentioned an Allen Models engine. This would be an excellent choice. These designs are well proven, many have been built, they aren't all that hard to build, and the castings are reasonably priced and available.
And yes, I've heard and it seems very sensible to start with a tried and true design.
-JW
Re: Newbie looking for sources
Here we go again.
B&OBob
B&OBob
Re: Newbie looking for sources
My thoughts exactly . . . unfortunately.
Perhaps in the spirit of our unwritten obligation to "pass it on", if you feel such an obligation, it would save many of us lots of time if we composed a "Beginners Read Here First" page/post to be pinned, which will trot out the basics and provide subjects for further questions and answers in the open forum.
Perhaps in the spirit of our unwritten obligation to "pass it on", if you feel such an obligation, it would save many of us lots of time if we composed a "Beginners Read Here First" page/post to be pinned, which will trot out the basics and provide subjects for further questions and answers in the open forum.
GWRdriver
Nashville TN
Nashville TN
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Re: Newbie looking for sources
Josiah,
Welcome to the forum. Lots of helpful people here to ask questions of. You might be stuck in no mans land, there in Idaho. I don’t know of any clubs in Eastern Washington, or Montana for that matter. Nothing in the panhandle also...
How far away is Denver? I think there is a club in Colorado, maybe two.
Beyond that the the great Northern Miniature RR is in Skykomish, Wa. Also a small semi commercial 10” ga club in Wenatchee.
One easy way to get started is buy an antique loco and restore it to operating condition. Lots of ga or electric powered Diesel Outlines available on Discover Live Steam. Then buy some used rail, and throw it down in your backyard.
Absolutely no reason to spend 10 years trying to build something when you can restore a perfectly fine engine in a fraction of that time. Or, buy a decent steam loco ready to run and get your experience fixing and maintaining it. You will learn plenty even with locos that are ready to go. Mainly because every one has something needed for repair. If not now,then tomorrow.
Glenn
Welcome to the forum. Lots of helpful people here to ask questions of. You might be stuck in no mans land, there in Idaho. I don’t know of any clubs in Eastern Washington, or Montana for that matter. Nothing in the panhandle also...
How far away is Denver? I think there is a club in Colorado, maybe two.
Beyond that the the great Northern Miniature RR is in Skykomish, Wa. Also a small semi commercial 10” ga club in Wenatchee.
One easy way to get started is buy an antique loco and restore it to operating condition. Lots of ga or electric powered Diesel Outlines available on Discover Live Steam. Then buy some used rail, and throw it down in your backyard.
Absolutely no reason to spend 10 years trying to build something when you can restore a perfectly fine engine in a fraction of that time. Or, buy a decent steam loco ready to run and get your experience fixing and maintaining it. You will learn plenty even with locos that are ready to go. Mainly because every one has something needed for repair. If not now,then tomorrow.
Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum
Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge
Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge
Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
- Atkinson_Railroad
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Re: Newbie looking for sources
Veteran model makers and industrious individuals are always on the hunt for sources.
It's not restricted to newbie's.
Thinking about all the things that used to be readily available for scratch builder's...
and comparing the items with what options are available today for a thrifty builder...
the search will always continue and never really ends.
John
It's not restricted to newbie's.
Thinking about all the things that used to be readily available for scratch builder's...
and comparing the items with what options are available today for a thrifty builder...
the search will always continue and never really ends.
John