Brass vs steel

[hoppercar]

I had a fellow at our track recently ask me how I built my tender tank, when I told him it was all brass, he was surprised. When asked why brass,...it caught me off guard and I had to think a minute?...my answer was simply, because that's the way I always done it...lol.....made me think about putting a post here, to simply see, what builders think about brass vs steel ??......I have never found the cost of brass to be really much of an issue, but the labor involved with the drilling, riveting, clecos and soldering....it is quite time consuming. You have to be especially careful when soldering, that you don't wrinkle the brass. ....carefully scuffed up with scotch Brite, and washed down with acetone, I find using a good quality acid etch primer, and I have never had any issues with paint peeling off the brass.....all said and done, it's a lot of work, but you have a maintenance free tank that will last forever.....I know there are suppliers that supply laser cut tank kits out of steel, that a builder has to paint the inside with, with a variety of available, sealants and "goos"..…but I've never been a fan of that ?.....so let's see, hands up, for brass or steel...

[Harold_V]

Start with the knowledge that I have no experience with tenders.

Brass is used because it doesn't rust (only iron and many of its alloys rust). There are other options, one of which would be a 300 series of stainless steel, but it's far more difficult to work than brass.

The use of sheet steel for construction of a tender is most likely quite acceptable, assuming one doesn't mind the fact that it will be troublesome, at least to some degree, where corrosion is concerned. It would be highly unusual for a steel tank to be permanently sealed against leakage and corrosion, which, in due time, would lead to failure.

I stand to be corrected.

H

[hoppercar]

Harold, as you mentioned, sealants over time are prone to failure, and I have seen it happen several times, where a piece of sealant or coating would flake off, get in your tender feed water line...even past screens...and plug up injector cones .

[gwrdriver]

[snip] the labor involved with the drilling, riveting, clecos and soldering....it is quite time consuming. You have to be especially careful when soldering, that you don't wrinkle the brass....all said and done, it's a lot of work, but you have a maintenance free tank that will last forever......so let's see, hands up, for brass or steel...

I'm in for brass, first because I have enough on hand (bought cheaply long ago) to last through my future projects, and because all those projects will be relatively small.
I agree that brass tanks, well any tanks, can be tedious work, especially if they are small and well-braced. The photos are of my current side tanks under construction, Overall width is 3" and the largest single plate is 6½" x 12". That's very manageable as overall size and economical as material goes, but are a bear to work inside, and as hoppercar says it always involves large amount of cut or drill and fit time. I've taken a long break from these because it became tedious, but I'm close and in time I'll attack them again. BTW, the brass used for these tanks was recycled door kick plates.

If I were building a large tender, or tanks, for which I didn't already have material on hand, I would then go to steel. Steel has an advantage over brass in that it resists damage (scratches, dings, etc), much better than brass. That means you don't have to be so careful in handling the material to protect it from cosmetic damages which can add prep time and effort if you want a really good final finish.

[NP317]

Both tenders I built were the steel kits from LocoParts.
I had little time available but sufficient $$ to purchase the kits.
I would prefer brass and hope LocoParts and Allen Engines would choose to make brass kits.

I carefully built and sealed the steel tender tanks, and after 16 years of use I did have to perform some re-sealing of the first tank.
Not a big deal, fortunately.
Pics below of the second tender construction.
RussN

[Soot n' Cinders]

My tank is galvanized steel and sealed using soft solder. I copied this from Art Olds, a friend of mine has his consolidation that's over 30 years old with the original tank. The solder is never going to peel away from the joints and the galvanizing should keep corrosion at bay for years to come as long as the tank is stored dry.

[Sandiapaul]

RussN,

You are lucky with the Locoparts kits...I can't get a reply from them about a kit for my tender which I would love to send them money for! I will have to make one of my own and brass will be my choice, despite the cost.

[my2cents]

Sandiapaul call Jeff, he either picks up or calls me back within a couple of hours. I never have a problem getting a hold of him. I know he is busy with a large project and a message may have got missed.

[JohnHudak]

Before I built the tender for my PRR G5, I did a lot of thinking/research about brass vs steel.. I talked to quite a few people about sealing problems, rust, construction issues, etc...
Several people told me to build with whatever you have on hand, and don't worry about sealing the tank at all, it was suggested to build an inner tank from pvc sheet, and "forget" about it..
This idea intrigued me so I did more research on pvc.. The sheets come in many thicknesses, and grades, Home Depot even sells them.. Assembly is a snap, you can make your tank any size/shape you want, and use pvc angle on all the corners, "bungs" can be threaded/fitted anywhere needed.. Just make sure to use the recommended cleaner and glue on the pieces before you assemble them.. This idea made me rethink the design of my tender, as now there is no steel bottom plate, the tank insert will just sit on a few cross braces and be bolted down in a few places..
I haven't started construction of the insert yet, as it's not yet needed, but when I do, I'll post some pics here..
John

[cbrew]

All my tenders are steel,
yes brass may last longer. but i can build 3 or 4 steel tenders to one brass.
with proper coating, like KBS. the tank will out last most of us.
Steve at Allen Models has tender kits in stock and ships in a timely manner
Jeff at Locoparts did return my emails and shipped my order of "goodies" right away

[pat1027]

My tender was fabricated from Galvanneal 29 years ago. It's riveted construction with the cut edges and seams sealed with epoxy. The only maintenance is to touch up the epoxy along the cut edges once a year.

[jtdute]

The debate of steel vs brass tenders have been going on for some time. They both have their advantages and disadvantages The steel is stronger, more robust and cost effective than brass. Brass will not rust and looks great. I have built and offered stainless steel tender kits as well. These tender kits will not rust but can be a pain to work with. I have of couple of steel tenders that or over 30 years old with no issues (they are due to be cleaned, re-coated and repainted). If routine inspection and maintenance is preformed they will last a good amount of time. The items the kill steel tank is leaving them stored with water in them and not repairing any breakdown of the sealant. In areas of the country where humidity is high, leaving your tender stored in a non climate control shed or outside can cause rust to occur. Even if drained with humidity and temperature variations can cause moisture inside tank then promoting corrosion. I have seen a couple of live steamers put a small fan over the tender hatch to keep air circulating to help keep moisture at bay when in storage. If there is breakdown in sealant then like a car, rust corrosion will begin and creep under the coating. If you inspect the coating on a yearly basis you can then detect and make any repair to the coating. I normally get debris in the tank from the water source rather than from sealant breakdown. If you are getting sealant debris in your injector cones, yes you have a problem and routine maintenance and corrective action is not being preformed. Our Locomotives as with their full size brothers require quite a bit of maintenance and care in areas that can be seen as well as hidden areas.
Sandiapaul, I sent you a private message requesting some information. I do not have any outstanding phone calls or emails to reply to so I would like to get you the information that you requested.

Jeff Dute
LocoParts