1” pacific boiler

This forum is dedicated to the Live Steam Hobbyist Community.

Moderators: cbrew, Harold_V

P. Kocher
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 4:51 pm

1” pacific boiler

Post by P. Kocher »

I bought a 1” Little engines Pacific a few years ago. It has the original copper boiler that I believe is from around 1962-64. During its last hydro last week found that I have a few pin holes in the crown sheet and a decent size leak in my fire door opening. Unfortunately I think it is time for a new boiler. Does anyone know someone that could build a new steal boiler for this engine? I don’t have the prints for the boiler but could get my hands on them. Any info helpful.
User avatar
LVRR2095
Posts: 1688
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 6:50 pm
Location: Maine, USA

Re: 1” pacific boiler

Post by LVRR2095 »

Why not look into fixing the copper boiler first?
Pin hole leaks could be fixed with a little silver solder.
It would be a shame to lose a copper boiler because of fixable weeps.

Keith
Mike Walsh
Posts: 955
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 10:14 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO

Re: 1” pacific boiler

Post by Mike Walsh »

I do have a set of prints. However the prints are for a copper boiler, of which only external dimensions would basically be helpful for you.

Marty Knox might be an option but I am not sure if he is taking on custom orders. I think he is currently only doing orders via a list of offered designs at this time.

Wayne Godschall might be an option also.

Not sure who else would be an option for steel boilers that small.
User avatar
Bill Shields
Posts: 10460
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:57 am
Location: 39.367, -75.765
Contact:

Re: 1” pacific boiler

Post by Bill Shields »

fixing the copper boiler may not be an option.

if it was done with sil-phos...it is a throw away..once the leaks start there is no fixing..just chasing in circles.

need a very good close up picture of a leaking area (or any area where there is silver solder present)

why a steel boiler anyway?
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
P. Kocher
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 4:51 pm

Re: 1” pacific boiler

Post by P. Kocher »

The crown sheet is showing signs of pillowing and same on the sides. Will try to attach pics of crack and pin holes. Did try to silver solder the pin holes in crown sheet but couldn’t get it to stick.
Attachments
Pic 1
Pic 1
Pic 2
Pic 2
Pic 3
Pic 3
Pic 4
Pic 4
P. Kocher
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 4:51 pm

Re: 1” pacific boiler

Post by P. Kocher »

I have run a few little engine Pacific with steal boilers and really like how they have performed.
User avatar
Bill Shields
Posts: 10460
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:57 am
Location: 39.367, -75.765
Contact:

Re: 1” pacific boiler

Post by Bill Shields »

What did you clean the water area of the boiler with,

CLR? Or sulfuric acid?

The green stuff looks suspicious..

Any way you can get in around the firedoor leak with a dremel wire wheel and clean the crud away so that I can see copper and solder?

I am thinking that if it is not sil phos...the leaks are repairable and boiler should be good to go ..however what I see around the firedoor looks a bit suspicious
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
User avatar
tsph6500
Posts: 1417
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 3:38 pm
Location: West of Dunvegan, Ontario CANADA
Contact:

Re: 1” pacific boiler

Post by tsph6500 »

It is not unusual at my club to have copper boilers dating from the 1930s and a few of us have repaired several of them over recent years.

The deflections in the firebox sheets are most likely from the initial fabrication or heating during construction, not from staybolt failures. Heat application for silver soldering back in the day was uneven, often one-man operations with a gasoline blow torch.

Leaky staybolts - Again, this is likely inadequate heat application on the initial heating to get the solder to flow into the joint (cold joint) and can be fixed with adequate cleaning, good quality black flux, and a pin-point oxy-acetylene torch.

Efflorescence through pinholes and joints (a ball of water, weepers but not pissers) - this is not a structural failure. Some pinholes will seal up when the boiler is at OP. You can mechanically plug them if access is possible, by peening them with a ball-tipped punch. Many light taps are preferable over whacking the bejeezus out of it. You want to flow the copper from around the pinhole to the center.

Pissers - These require a little grinding with a very small ball-tipped die-grinder to make a slight divot for the solder to puddle in. Clean the immediate area down to shiny copper.

Overall boiler sealing - we use a tablespoon of sodium silicate (water glass) once or twice a year. Add the water glass directly to the boiler along with a boiler full of water. With ALL valves & throttle closed, fire the boiler and bring it up to 30 - 40 psi. Do NOT open any valves or the throttle. Do NOT lift the safeties. Keep it at medium pressure for about 20 minutes and then let the boiler cool down. Do NOT blowdown the boiler. Drain the boiler completely and refill with clean water.

Sodium silicate dispels the myth that a sil-fos boiler is unusable and must be scrapped.

Silver soldering - Follow normal silver soldering practices, Use good quality black flux. The boiler MUST be clean through mechanical and/or chemical methods. We use big propane torches for general heat and a pin-point oxy-acetylene torch for focused heat. A large Tupperware tub filled with water and powdered pool acid works very well as a pickling bath. We use 38%, 56%, and 45% silver solder when building boilers so you don't melt previous boiler assemblies.

Good luck.
Best regards,
Jim Leggett

Montreal Live Steamers
www.montreallivesteamers.org

A Founding Member of the Tinkerbell Scale Society - Northern Division
I'm an A.R.S.E. (Association of Railroad Steam Engineers)
Toad Swamp & Punk Hollow Railroad - Head Tycoon
The Juvenile Traction Company - CEO & Apprentice Machinist 3rd Class
White Mountain Central RR - Engineer & Fireman
jscarmozza
Posts: 599
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:09 pm

Re: 1” pacific boiler

Post by jscarmozza »

I don't know how I missed this discussion, but better late then never. Yesterday at the NJLS Blowdown, one of my lives steam buddies gave me this link because I wouldn't fire my 1" LE Atlantic on coal for fear of damaging the LE boiler made with sil-fos. I've been running my engines on wood and or charcoal since I got into the hobby about five years ago. A few of the longtime live steamers were busting my chops about not firing with coal, so encouraged by Jim's comments and information regarding repair and maintenance of copper boilers (and a lot of cajoling from my buddies) I fire on coal...a very positive difference in performance and operation.

With all that being said, I'd like to know more about this sodium silicate boiler treatment. Is this a preventive treatment or repair treatment, do you do this to prevent the joints from weeping or to seal them afterwards? Should the sodium silicate be a dry powder or a liquid solution, and if I can't find sodium silicate do you think automotive radiator leak repair products would work as well? I'm grateful to learn this, I want to pass my live steam equipment on to my grandsons and want to keep it in the best condition that I can while still enjoying it myself.
John
User avatar
gwrdriver
Posts: 3439
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 10:31 am
Location: Nashville Tennessee

Re: 1” pacific boiler

Post by gwrdriver »

A few questions to ask of your "Buddies" . . . .
Whose boiler is it? Mine or yours?
Who's going to repair or replace my boiler if it's damaged or fails due to questionable advice?
Who'll be held responsible and liable if there's an accident and someone is injured?

The sodium silicate treatment can be both a preventative and a repair. I've never really known how radiator stop-leaks work, and I've never used one in that way, so I can't comment on those.
GWRdriver
Nashville TN
User avatar
Bill Shields
Posts: 10460
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:57 am
Location: 39.367, -75.765
Contact:

Re: 1” pacific boiler

Post by Bill Shields »

If a sil fos boiler begins to leak from use with sulfur..sodium silicate will not fix the problem.

I am totally with gwrdriver wrt all he has outlined.

I have never seen or heard of a catestrophic sil fos failure because of being used with coal...generally because they become so leaky that they tend to put the coal fire out.

Basically once a soldered copper boiler begins to leak it is time to start building another...there is no fixing it.

Leaks from the get go are another kettle of fish and may be handled with sodium silicate.

:mrgreen:
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
User avatar
Dick_Morris
Posts: 2841
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 2:09 pm
Location: Anchorage, AK

Re: 1” pacific boiler

Post by Dick_Morris »

As for sodium silicate, I couldn't find any in a local search to use for making cores for casting so got it through Amazon.
Post Reply