C.P. Huntington

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gwrdriver
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Re: C.P. Huntington

Post by gwrdriver » Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:23 am

Fender wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:07 am
Actually, Charlie Pipes and Scott Reedy, both of whom are on this forum and members at MSLS
There's also a founding member of MSLS on this board.
GWRdriver
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gwrdriver
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Re: C.P. Huntington

Post by gwrdriver » Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:27 am

Pontiacguy1 wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:28 pm
Charlie pipes has an Allen 4-4-0 that he runs up at our Club track sometimes, which is made from the same castings as the C.P. Huntington.
Scott, maybe I've misunderstood, but if Charlie has an Allen locomotive it couldn't be made from Huntington (LE) castings.

One of our earliest members, Paul Craft, who was instrumental in acquiring the operation in the Park but eventually parted ways with the Club, built both a LE Huntington and Pacific. I don't know what became of either locomotive after he passed away. The Huntington has MY knuckle coupler and pocked on it and I want them back! LOL!
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Fender
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Re: C.P. Huntington

Post by Fender » Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:15 pm

gwrdriver wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:23 am
There's also a founding member of MSLS on this board.
Didn’t mean to slight anyone from MSLS, just meant that Charlie was also in N. Alabama, and Scott was “North of” N. Alabama! :wink:
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NP317
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Re: C.P. Huntington

Post by NP317 » Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:51 pm

Bill Shields wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:50 pm
A safety will release at set pressure no matter what the fluid.
[snip]
I was taught differently by the steam test technicians at Star Brass, Inc, in Seattle.
Of course those were full sized Consolidated safety valves, and temperature expansion issues are likely different for large constructions.
That is the information I have relied on.
RussN

Mjordan
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Re: C.P. Huntington

Post by Mjordan » Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:52 pm

NP317 wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:51 pm
Bill Shields wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:50 pm
A safety will release at set pressure no matter what the fluid.
[snip]
I was taught differently by the steam test technicians at Star Brass, Inc, in Seattle.
Of course those were full sized Consolidated safety valves, and temperature expansion issues are likely different for large constructions.
That is the information I have relied on.
RussN
If I hydro to 120, then steam up. Couldn’t I keep an eye on the gauge and if they don’t release at 100 use the blow down to keep the pressure down?

Glenn Brooks
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Re: C.P. Huntington

Post by Glenn Brooks » Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:39 pm

You might want to reconsider the idea of doing a hydro test. Hydrotesting is only used in the commercial boiler world to certify a new boiler for initial service. It is never used to determine service life or for routine maintenance or operation. The reason is, that Pressurizing a cold boiler causes metal fatigue, cracked welds and broken stays.

Far better for you to hook up with an experienced club member to do a proper physical inspection for signs of deterioration from new. If none, then fill with water and do a proper, controlled, slow firing, and observe for Leaks or abnormal conditions as your boiler pressure raises. This will give you a proper result, without the substantial risk of permanent damage.

These days you can pretty easily view and inspect the inside of the boiler tube and stay condition with a small miniature camera ( they are very cheap and high quality these days); shoot the boiler tube shell for thickness with ultrasound to get a sense of any loss in plate thickness; and test and certify your pressure relief valves. If these inspections show no change from it’s original condition, then it will be in basically the same shape as when it was laid up- regardless of age.

There has been considerable discussion on the topic of pressure testing boilers. For those who may wish to read the comments, please follow this link. https://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/vi ... 8&t=110442 The thread in question was split off from this thread.
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Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

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Re: C.P. Huntington

Post by Pontiacguy1 » Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:05 pm

Scott, maybe I've misunderstood, but if Charlie has an Allen locomotive it couldn't be made from Huntington (LE) castings.
It was a Typo... I was thinking LE, but typed Allen. I guess my mind was wandering off somewhere. Yes, Charlie has a Little Engines American, not an Allen American. That thing is pretty small, having a grate size of about 4" x5" or something like that. However, it can run pretty good if you practice and get the hang of it. Small locomotives can be fun too...

I remember going over to Paul Craft's house with my dad when I was maybe 8 or 9 years old. I remember seeing that LE locomotive, but for some reason I thought it was an American, not the 4-2-4. I remember it was pretty, though. He had that locomotive, whichever one it was, a Southern PS4 pacific, and a GP diesel locomotive of some type. I think he also had some cars and maybe a smaller diesel locomotive. He had 3 or 4 locomotives, and a small loop of track in his back yard. To a 8 year old, that was impressive. When he died back in the early 1990s, his widow offered the PS4 pacific for sale for a then-unreal price of $25,000. Back 30 years ago, that was almost 2X what people thought it was worth. She would not come down on the price, and I know it sat for several years. I don't know if it ever sold or not. I have no idea what happened to the other locomotives. I'd like to see them sometime. Lord Knows it's been almost 40 years since I saw them.

FYI: Everyone does hydro tests, or should, on an annual basis. The standard for most boilers is 2 1/2 X Max working pressure for an initial test (new boiler), and 1 1/2 X max working pressure annually. So if your safeties are set at 80 PSI, then 120 would be correct for a hydro test. If you run at 100 PSI, which is pretty standard for Copper boilers in miniature locomotives, then you'd hydro test to 150 PSI. In Tennessee, there is no state agency or registrations for hobby boilers. They pretty much leave us alone about it. However, all precautions should be taken because an accident or high-profile complaint could easily bring us under the scrutiny and then regulatory control of the state. The less they are involved, the better, IMHO.

About using the blowdowns to control pressure... is not a good thing to do, and all you'll do is blow all the water out of your boiler and ruin it before the pressure starts dropping significantly. Pressure relief valves usually are adjustable. You raise the pressure slowly and set them to what you want.
It really isn't that big of an issue to set them.

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Re: C.P. Huntington

Post by Mjordan » Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:23 pm

Pontiacguy1 wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:05 pm
Scott, maybe I've misunderstood, but if Charlie has an Allen locomotive it couldn't be made from Huntington (LE) castings.
It was a Typo... I was thinking LE, but typed Allen. I guess my mind was wandering off somewhere. Yes, Charlie has a Little Engines American, not an Allen American. That thing is pretty small, having a grate size of about 4" x5" or something like that. However, it can run pretty good if you practice and get the hang of it. Small locomotives can be fun too...

I remember going over to Paul Craft's house with my dad when I was maybe 8 or 9 years old. I remember seeing that LE locomotive, but for some reason I thought it was an American, not the 4-2-4. I remember it was pretty, though. He had that locomotive, whichever one it was, a Southern PS4 pacific, and a GP diesel locomotive of some type. I think he also had some cars and maybe a smaller diesel locomotive. He had 3 or 4 locomotives, and a small loop of track in his back yard. To a 8 year old, that was impressive. When he died back in the early 1990s, his widow offered the PS4 pacific for sale for a then-unreal price of $25,000. Back 30 years ago, that was almost 2X what people thought it was worth. She would not come down on the price, and I know it sat for several years. I don't know if it ever sold or not. I have no idea what happened to the other locomotives. I'd like to see them sometime. Lord Knows it's been almost 40 years since I saw them.

FYI: Everyone does hydro tests, or should, on an annual basis. The standard for most boilers is 2 1/2 X Max working pressure for an initial test (new boiler), and 1 1/2 X max working pressure annually. So if your safeties are set at 80 PSI, then 120 would be correct for a hydro test. If you run at 100 PSI, which is pretty standard for Copper boilers in miniature locomotives, then you'd hydro test to 150 PSI. In Tennessee, there is no state agency or registrations for hobby boilers. They pretty much leave us alone about it. However, all precautions should be taken because an accident or high-profile complaint could easily bring us under the scrutiny and then regulatory control of the state. The less they are involved, the better, IMHO.

About using the blowdowns to control pressure... is not a good thing to do, and all you'll do is blow all the water out of your boiler and ruin it before the pressure starts dropping significantly. Pressure relief valves usually are adjustable. You raise the pressure slowly and set them to what you want.
It really isn't that big of an issue to set them.
Shoot, you’re right about the blow down.. I wasn’t thinking about how it is plumbed. It would dump all the water before releasing any steam.. I should have thought a little more before asking that lol.

I flew to seattle to crate this. I think it was 24”x40”. It weighs about 175lbs.

Pontiacguy1
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Re: C.P. Huntington

Post by Pontiacguy1 » Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:16 pm

Can't wait to see it. Hope the shipping company is gentle with it, and it arrives in Alabama intact.

Mjordan
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Re: C.P. Huntington

Post by Mjordan » Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:53 pm

Pontiacguy1 wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:16 pm
Can't wait to see it. Hope the shipping company is gentle with it, and it arrives in Alabama intact.

It’s already here, sorry I meant to say that. I’ve been spending the last couple months cleaning it and oiling parts. But yes it came intact. I used ABF freight and they did an amazing job nationally. I even called each time it was received at a location to get an estimated time or departure haha, I was very nervous.
Last edited by Mjordan on Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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gwrdriver
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Re: C.P. Huntington

Post by gwrdriver » Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:01 pm

Scott,
My recollection is Paul Craft's "PS4" was a stock LE Pacific with cosmetic details, paint, and lettering for Southern.
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Pontiacguy1
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Re: C.P. Huntington

Post by Pontiacguy1 » Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:39 am

It may have been... I really don't remember. To an 8 year old kid, that thing was big, pretty, and painted green like my favorite locomotive, the 4501. I just remember a shop that had 3 or 4 locomotives stored in it, a backyard that had about a 600 foot loop of track or so, maybe even smaller. I also remember he had a lot of tools and equipment, his shop was very neat and clean, and he liked for everything to be just-so. I also remember about where he lived. That's about it as far as my memories of him go.

My dad worked at Monsanto, and I remember him saying that Paul Craft was a big-dog in the Columbia Monsanto plant and in the Monsanto company, which was huge and very powerful in Tennessee at the time. Paul had a lot of pull inside the company and with local notables and politicians too. He was the one who got the new park to let us (MSLS) build track, which you mentioned. He used his considerable influence to make that happen. That was also what caused him to have a falling-out with the club. He was used to everyone doing what he told them to, and to getting everything his way, and that doesn't translate very well to an all-volunteer organization that's supposed to be about having fun. I have talked to 2 or 3 of the older members about him back years ago, and they all said the same thing... It was going to be his club and everyone was going to have to do things the way he wanted, or he was going to take his toys and go home. That's my understanding. I never did hear his side of it, but since I heard the same story from multiple people, I feel like it's pretty accurate. It's really too bad, too, since he was obviously pretty skilled and resourceful. Paul Brien said that a time or two he came down to Columbia on a week day after one of the meets, and Paul Craft would be out there running around the MSLS track by himself. I heard tell that he was selling some of his equipment off before he died, and that when someone came over to look at it, he would ask them what club they ran with. If they said they ran with Mid-South, then he would tell them that he wasn't going to sell it to them!! That's pretty poor in my opinion.

I really did think that his locomotive was an American, not a C.P. Huntington locomotive. Do you have any pictures? I never saw any of his stuff run that I can recall. The only C.P. Huntington that I've ever seen run in 1 1/2" scale was Leo Myers' locomotive mentioned before, and he weighted his down before he ran it. It will be good to see one and see what it will do out on the track. Haven't seen one run since Leo quit bringing his to MSLS meets.

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