Condensation

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Berkman
Posts: 679
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: Condensation

Post by Berkman »

LVRR2095's suggestion is the "correct" method. Clearing out the cylinders by warming them up and letting the cylinder cocks blow via his method will eliminate 95% of the sludge that gets blown out when starting off after a fireup. All full size locomotives will be cleared in this manner.

Just be patient and repeat the process a few cycles between F and R, then slowly increase amount the throttle is open. You'll have very little left in it.

some cylinder cocks seems to have bigger openings than others, which take more or less time to clear the cylinders.
jcbrock
Posts: 511
Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 7:50 pm
Location: Oregon

Re: Condensation

Post by jcbrock »

Gra2472 wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:14 pm Burping the engine was one of my fathers favorite parts about being an engineer at the Billy Jones Wild Cat railroad back in the 1980's.
Jim and ...Diane?

You guys are right about getting the cylinders warm but even after that, maybe it depends on the engine, there was always some goop at the bottom of the smokebox that came up the first time you really drafted hard. Burping it in reverse was the best way to get it out, you did NOT want to splatter that stuff all over the paying passengers in the open coaches.

Emfinger, keep practicing leading the opening of the throttle appropriately with a corresponding opening of the oil valve to keep from sucking the fire out. You get a feel for it with enough running and can eventually be able to open the throttle very quickly. Shutting it down without smoking out the countryside was harder for me as you needed to add a little blower back in so it was 3 jobs with two hands.
John Brock
Emfinger
Posts: 229
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:30 pm
Location: Yucca Valley, CA

Re: Condensation

Post by Emfinger »

LVRR2095 wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:26 pm Seriously, there is a way to keep your locomotive from burping a mess all over your locomotive.
Sadly I never see anyone properly prepare to run after steaming up. The procedure I use is one I learned when operating full sized locomotives. As a previous poster mentioned, the cylinders and steam delivery pipes need to be warmed. The trick is to warm them BEFORE you move the locomotive. After you are steamed up and ready to move, put the reverser into either full forward or reverse. Slightly crack the throttle and let steam flow through the cylinder drains. After a while close the throttle, put the Johnson bar to the opposite direction and crack the throttle again. Repeat until the cylinders are hot to the touch. Then you can slowly leave the steaming bays with a clean locomotive. In your first post you mentioned whether it would work to direct the exhaust to the bottom of the smoke box. You need to know that the smoke stack is a vital part of the drafting and taking it out of the system will kill the vacuum that provides the draft to the fire. Warm your cylinders before you move and you will be able to stay clean and dry.
Keith
Keith,
thank you so much...I got it.
14 months ago I purchased my first engine a basket case without any part of the burner plumbing plus the manifold was in a bucket. The good news "there was a brand new Bagley Burner in the bucket".
I have been a hotrod gearhead guy all my life but when I moved to a place with a RR 10 miles from the house I changed my hobby. I worked on this thing for a year...not all day ..but everyday. If not busting parts I was searching for them. I dare say I understand how the damn thing works. But you Sir are the first person to share an operating procedure with me, thank you very much.
Tom
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kcameron
Posts: 266
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:23 pm
Location: Syracuse New York

Re: Condensation

Post by kcameron »

There a couple of different types of cylinder cocks out there. Manual, semi-auto, and automatic but which makes clearing condensation out easier? I've been happier with the manual or semi-auto valves as I can make them stay open regardless of what the cylinder is doing. In my view I don't see how the methods would work with automatic valves or at least no where near as well.

But what do others find?
-ken cameron
Syracuse Model Railroad Club http://www.SyracuseModelRr.org/
CNY Modelers http://www.cnymod.com/
Finger Lakes Live Steamers http://www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org/
Member JMRI Developer Team http://www.jmri.org/
mailto: kcameron@twcny.rr.com
In the Upstate New York US area of the world
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NP317
Posts: 4557
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:57 pm
Location: Northern Oregon, USA

Re: Condensation

Post by NP317 »

I use cylinder cocks that are manually operated, either mechanically or by steam.
Then I can control them to properly heat the cylinders and clear condensate as described above.

Learning to fire and engineer full sized steam locomotives first, really helped me deal with our miniatures.
RussN
Steve Goodbody
Posts: 219
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 7:16 am

Re: Condensation

Post by Steve Goodbody »

Hi Tom,
Along the same lines as the above, and although it may be difficult to do so now your loco is finished, it's worth considering adding a drain cock to each steam chest, ideally at a low point. With the loco in mid-gear, you can use this to warm up the cylinders before each run by venting steam steam straight to atmosphere (keep the loco in mid-gear and the brakes on while doing so, just in case).

If the steam-chest drain-cocks are arranged to vent from the lowest point, this has the added benefit of draining any condensate directly from the steam chests before it gets carried into the cylinders and up the stack. These cocks can also be used to drain any condensate from the steam chests after each run while the engine is cooling. Once the cylinders are thoroughly warmed this way, the cylinder drain-cocks should drain any remaining condensate without trouble. Keith's guidance can still be followed exactly as written, making this doubly sure.

If it helps, I uploaded a video to YouTube a while back which includes the cylinder warming process using the steam-chest drains. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FbTqFqHD-M - starting around time 17:30.

Best regards
Steve
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gwerhart0800
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:02 pm
Location: Loveland, CO USA

Re: Condensation

Post by gwerhart0800 »

FLSTEAM wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:24 am Actually every steam engine will give you a bath until the pipes and cylinders warm up. Only takes a few seconds.

John B.
I used to own an 1891 Groton traction engine. We were having a family steam up and my wife's Uncle walked up to the engine just as I started the engine up. He got showered with hot water, soot and oil and he was NOT happy. I got a dirty look, then he turned and went back into the house to change his clothes. Not sure he has ever forgiven me. Yes, the drain cocks were open, but there is always some residual water between the cylinders and the blast pipe.
George Erhart
Loveland, CO
https://lovelandcreatorspace.com
k36no4862002
Posts: 151
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:27 pm
Location: Surrey, UK

Re: Condensation

Post by k36no4862002 »

I have similar problems with my k36, the blower, air pump and cylinder exhaust all.throw up a black mess on initial start up.
We.just throw a large sheet.over.the loco and drive it , use it until it runs dry and.clean, typically by the time we.are at the station it's clean and dry enough to remove the sheet.
Paul Edmonds,
Surrey, United Kingdom.
2.5" Scale D&RGW K36, 1/6" Scale Challenger 4-6-6-4 (nearly done!!)
Emfinger
Posts: 229
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:30 pm
Location: Yucca Valley, CA

Re: Condensation

Post by Emfinger »

Emfinger wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:05 pm
LVRR2095 wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:26 pm Seriously, there is a way to keep your locomotive from burping a mess all over your locomotive.
Sadly I never see anyone properly prepare to run after steaming up. The procedure I use is one I learned when operating full sized locomotives. As a previous poster mentioned, the cylinders and steam delivery pipes need to be warmed. The trick is to warm them BEFORE you move the locomotive. After you are steamed up and ready to move, put the reverser into either full forward or reverse. Slightly crack the throttle and let steam flow through the cylinder drains. After a while close the throttle, put the Johnson bar to the opposite direction and crack the throttle again. Repeat until the cylinders are hot to the touch. Then you can slowly leave the steaming bays with a clean locomotive. In your first post you mentioned whether it would work to direct the exhaust to the bottom of the smoke box. You need to know that the smoke stack is a vital part of the drafting and taking it out of the system will kill the vacuum that provides the draft to the fire. Warm your cylinders before you move and you will be able to stay clean and dry.
Keith
Keith,
thank you so much...I got it.
14 months ago I purchased my first engine a basket case without any part of the burner plumbing plus the manifold was in a bucket. The good news "there was a brand new Bagley Burner in the bucket".
I have been a hotrod gearhead guy all my life but when I moved to a place with a RR 10 miles from the house I changed my hobby. I worked on this thing for a year...not all day ..but everyday. If not busting parts I was searching for them. I dare say I understand how the damn thing works. But you Sir are the first person to share an operating procedure with me, thank you very much.
Tom

I failed to mention that I'm not a machinist but last March I purchased a lathe and a mill. By the way I'm 76.
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