Could I get tips on dumpster diving for materials for your build?

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SteveM
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Re: Could I get tips on dumpster diving for materials for your build?

Post by SteveM »

I asked my brother, a construction contractor, why he used suppliers who were the highest price in the area.

He said that when he's got a construction crew waiting on something, downtime might be costing $100/hr or more, so spending even 15 minutes going to the cheaper supplier and risking that they don't even have it, was a net loss.

He went to them, even when it wasn't costing downtime, because when he walked in, they knew him.

Steve
John Hasler
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Re: Could I get tips on dumpster diving for materials for your build?

Post by John Hasler »

We aren't all wealthy enough to have the luxury of stocking up on everything we might need at McMaster-Carr prices nor do we use enough material to establish any kind of relationship with suppliers. This is very different from running a business (been there, done that).

Also, figuring out how to make it work with what we've got is half the fun.
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tsph6500
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Re: Could I get tips on dumpster diving for materials for your build?

Post by tsph6500 »

Heck… my 1948 Gorton 8-1/2D milling machine was found outside in a scrapyard by a good live steaming buddy of mine. He asked the yard owner what he wanted for it and the reply was, "It weighs 2400 lbs so bring me 2400 lbs of scrap and it's yours!"

My buddy did just that even though he didn't need a second mill. It sat in his shop building until one day I mentioned I needed to get a mill. He gave it to me! I didn't even know he had it.

Now there's the "brotherhood" you might have heard about. He wanted to see it used to further the hobby.

Since then I've added an older 3-axis DRO that I bartered some work for, bought a set of collets, and invested in some top quality carbide tooling. It's more than good enough for building live steam locomotives.

I love my mill. It's old school cool.
Best regards,
Jim Leggett

Montreal Live Steamers
www.montreallivesteamers.org

A Founding Member of the Tinkerbell Scale Society - Northern Division
I'm an A.R.S.E. (Association of Railroad Steam Engineers)
Toad Swamp & Punk Hollow Railroad - Head Tycoon
The Juvenile Traction Company - CEO & Apprentice Machinist 3rd Class
White Mountain Central RR - Engineer & Fireman
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NP317
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Re: Could I get tips on dumpster diving for materials for your build?

Post by NP317 »

As others have suggested here, I don't have time to dumpster dive looking for materials, try to machine them, have to replace the destroyed tooling, and have made zero progress toward my goals.
Acquiring the correct known materials has always cost me more up front, but saved $$ and time in the long run.
Learn from our mistakes and hassles. Get the correct materials.
Your time will be better spent, your frustration levels lower, and your product will be superior.

So in answer to your question: My tip is to NOT dumpster dive for materials.
RussN
John Hasler
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Re: Could I get tips on dumpster diving for materials for your build?

Post by John Hasler »

>So in answer to your question: My tip is to NOT dumpster dive for materials.

For some of us that's just a way of saying "Give it up".
shild
Posts: 293
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: Could I get tips on dumpster diving for materials for your build?

Post by shild »

tsph6500 wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:52 pm Heck… my 1948 Gorton 8-1/2D milling machine was found outside in a scrapyard by a good live steaming buddy of mine. He asked the yard owner what he wanted for it and the reply was, "It weighs 2400 lbs so bring me 2400 lbs of scrap and it's yours!"

My buddy did just that even though he didn't need a second mill. It sat in his shop building until one day I mentioned I needed to get a mill. He gave it to me! I didn't even know he had it.

Now there's the "brotherhood" you might have heard about. He wanted to see it used to further the hobby.

Since then I've added an older 3-axis DRO that I bartered some work for, bought a set of collets, and invested in some top quality carbide tooling. It's more than good enough for building live steam locomotives.

I love my mill. It's old school cool.
Took your earlier advice today, had a hard time machining something then I stopped machining it and tossed it in the trash. At least I have less clutter now.
I have watched a couple video's of your Gorton. That's an excellent machine! I think I also watched one of Trainman's videos where you said you have 7 of the 3 1/2" gauge loco's? Do you get new boiler certificates for all 7 every year? Or are some just display?
shild
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Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: Could I get tips on dumpster diving for materials for your build?

Post by shild »

Dick_Morris wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:04 am
Most painted steel sheet around 18 to 20 gauge (file cabinets, etc.) is galvanized, which doesn't accept paint very well. I try to leave it in the dumpster unless I have an appropriate use for it.

I pretty much avoid any hot dip galvanized material. It's not healthy to weld, has an ugly finish and doesn't accept paint well.

Didn't expect someone to say this. Didn't even know galvanized sheet metal is more difficult to paint. Sure doesn't seem to be a problem in the automotive world. A galvanized auto can take much more abuse from road salt than a none galvanized auto. If galvanized is more difficult to paint, isn't it worth it because it's less likely to rust? I also have gutted a refridgerator door for the sheet metal. This one wasn't stainless but a textured kind of mild steel. Had foam insulation that took a while to get off. I want to try burning it next time if I can do it without burning it too much.
shild
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Re: Could I get tips on dumpster diving for materials for your build?

Post by shild »

Thanks for all the replies guys! I've learned a lot today. Would like to know more about test to figure out what kind of metal you have. Also, seems to me that some things a loco needs such as the straps that go around an axle eccentric for a water pump, valve gear or lubricator, would be easier to find a gas engine piston rod that already exist than make the 2 halves of that strap and a connecting rod? I looked at the piston rod from one of my cars and that's too big, but I have a leaf blower I can dissect to see if that comes close. I've also seen people at Waushakum running steam engines carrying a 12 volt motorcycle battery. I guess that would be to run a pump to put water in the boiler isn't it? Where does that come from? Are they a cars high pressure fuel injector pumps?
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Dick_Morris
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Re: Could I get tips on dumpster diving for materials for your build?

Post by Dick_Morris »

A file and a magnet will help a bit to tell if something is suitable. If you can cut it a piece of steal easily with a file, it's not hardened. If a magnet sticks to a piece of brass looking stuff, it's not brass. If the you take the file to brass looking stuff that the magnet doesn't stick to and the inside is gray, it's probably a zinc alloy. If you can get under the hard surface of polished shafting used in a hydraulic cylinder, it may be a lot softer and be machinable underneath.

Zinc plated steel is good for a lot of things, just be aware that it may take more specialized techniques to get paint to stick well and last than bright steel.

Some of the insulation used give off some nasty fumes. Using heat to remove it may result in warping thin sheet metal.
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tsph6500
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Re: Could I get tips on dumpster diving for materials for your build?

Post by tsph6500 »

Going off the topic but… to paint galvanized you need to prep it with a wipe down of ammonia to remove the surface oxidation. A coat of self-etching primer and enamel paint. Done.

I learned a trick while working in a restoration/hot rod shop… preheat parts whenever possible, not red HOT, what is called blood warm on the RR when we check bearings. That temperature that a warm hand is, the part is neither hot nor cold.

In the winter I hang the freshly painted parts on wires over the woodstove in my shop. It slowly bakes out the volatiles from the solvent in the paint. Again, warm not HOT.
Best regards,
Jim Leggett

Montreal Live Steamers
www.montreallivesteamers.org

A Founding Member of the Tinkerbell Scale Society - Northern Division
I'm an A.R.S.E. (Association of Railroad Steam Engineers)
Toad Swamp & Punk Hollow Railroad - Head Tycoon
The Juvenile Traction Company - CEO & Apprentice Machinist 3rd Class
White Mountain Central RR - Engineer & Fireman
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tsph6500
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Location: West of Dunvegan, Ontario CANADA
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Re: Could I get tips on dumpster diving for materials for your build?

Post by tsph6500 »

shild wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:28 am Do you get new boiler certificates for all 7 every year? Or are some just display?
There are no boiler certifications required here for our size boilers.

My club recommends following standard designs and practices.
Best regards,
Jim Leggett

Montreal Live Steamers
www.montreallivesteamers.org

A Founding Member of the Tinkerbell Scale Society - Northern Division
I'm an A.R.S.E. (Association of Railroad Steam Engineers)
Toad Swamp & Punk Hollow Railroad - Head Tycoon
The Juvenile Traction Company - CEO & Apprentice Machinist 3rd Class
White Mountain Central RR - Engineer & Fireman
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NP317
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Re: Could I get tips on dumpster diving for materials for your build?

Post by NP317 »

Shild:
For eccentric straps for steam locomotive models, they require specialized shapes and sizes and materials.
Attached is a photo of two strap sets I just finished machining for fellow live steamers.
They use bronze for the straps (proper bearing material for the 2-1/8" diameter cast iron eccentrics) and O-1 tool steel for the other parts.
The clevises and pins are hardened for long wear life.

I hope that helps you understand the specifics involved, and why I carefully select the materials.
RussN
IMG_3777.JPG
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