I understand castings cost a lot, but why drawings?

[Harlock]

Look at that, this one is dirt cheap, also saw virginia 4-4-0 plans that are cheap. Trying to understand why some plans are expensive and some cheap. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Raritan-by-Bil ... 0047.m2108

Older, simpler small scales locomotive drawings for 3.5" gauge do not command the prices of currently supported 7.5" gauge locomotives with large casting sets. Huge difference in size and complexity. The Virginia and Raritan designs are rarely built these days. A bit like apples and oranges.

[Harlock]

Was not aware of that! What do you think the percentage is who don't complete one? I know that in the automotive world that only 1/4 of the people who take their car apart for a frame off restoration will actually get it back together and running again. Is it similar to that?

Hard to say. One in five maybe?

[shild]

Look at that, this one is dirt cheap, also saw virginia 4-4-0 plans that are cheap. Trying to understand why some plans are expensive and some cheap. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Raritan-by-Bil ... 0047.m2108

Older, simpler small scales locomotive drawings for 3.5" gauge do not command the prices of currently supported 7.5" gauge locomotives with large casting sets. Huge difference in size and complexity. The Virginia and Raritan designs are rarely built these days. A bit like apples and oranges.

Is that right? When you say currently supported, you just mean that castings are currently available? What else is there for the simpler 3.5" gauge locomotives like that?

[Pontiacguy1]

One more piece of advice: If you find something that you want (castings, plans, fittings, etc...) and it is available right now, then do your best to go on and get it, and get all that you need while you can. As has been explained above, most of the suppliers in this hobby are garage manufacturers, with a few notable exceptions. These folks put all of the money and time in that it takes to bring something to market and keep it stocked and available. Often, once that person is gone, the products that they sold just disappear. There are quite a few suppliers that I remember when I was growing up and even as recently as 15-20 years ago or so, that are simply gone now. None of their stuff is available any more from anywhere. So now, if there is something that I need or want, and I can afford it, I go on and get it so that I have it in my possession for whenever I need it. Who knows if/when it will become unavailable. It's happened many times before.

By Supported he means that castings and parts are available for it. There are a lot of older designs out there that have not had castings produced for them in a long time. The plans still exist, and can be had really cheaply, but the castings you need for it aren't available any longer.

[Greg_Lewis]

One more piece of advice: If you find something that you want (castings, plans, fittings, etc...) and it is available right now, then do your best to go on and get it, and get all that you need while you can. As has been explained above, most of the suppliers in this hobby are garage manufacturers, with a few notable exceptions. These folks put all of the money and time in that it takes to bring something to market and keep it stocked and available. Often, once that person is gone, the products that they sold just disappear. There are quite a few suppliers that I remember when I was growing up and even as recently as 15-20 years ago or so, that are simply gone now. None of their stuff is available any more from anywhere. So now, if there is something that I need or want, and I can afford it, I go on and get it so that I have it in my possession for whenever I need it. Who knows if/when it will become unavailable. It's happened many times before.

By Supported he means that castings and parts are available for it. There are a lot of older designs out there that have not had castings produced for them in a long time. The plans still exist, and can be had really cheaply, but the castings you need for it aren't available any longer.

There is a lesson most of us have learned the hard way. Don't wait. Hit the "Buy It Now" button today as it might be gone tomorrow.

[gwrdriver]

Yes, many of us have learned that the hard way. But all is not always lost. People's tastes, interests, and personal circumstances change, sometimes very quickly, and if you missed something the first time around (as I have) as often as not eventually an opportunity to pick up whatever it was will appear. Patience is needed as it might take a while.

[SZuiderveen]

After briefly being in the supplier business a few years ago, I have learned not to fear the castings problem if I have the drawings. Especially in smaller parts, it is relatively easy to make a master pattern in 3-D modeling, and make copies for a match plate. Of course, during that brief period of being a manufacturer, I made a relationship with Cattail Foundry in Lancaster County. You either have to learn how to make the 3-D models, or are you barter future castings to someone who already knows how! So far, I’ve been part of a group to do several wheel blanks, link and pin couplers, journal boxes, and journal lids. So for me the drawings are more important to preserve than the castings.

Steve

[Neil Cossey]

I want to buy a lathe. I sold mine and I want to upgrade. Looking for a nice Monarch 10ee or comparable size and quality.

[Bill Shields]

The flea bag sale is not from the owner of the copyright or producer of the drawings and castings.

Joe T knows what his stuff is worth and does not give it away.

Nothing prevents anyone from selling an original at a loss.

Selling or giving away copies is another matter.

All in all...the drawings are the least expensive part of building a loco. If you cannot afford to pay for the drawings from the legit supplier... then perhaps you are in the wrong hobby.

[FKreider]

Anyone who has to ask this question has never sat down and designed anything...and would be the first person to give away a copy of drawings because they purchased them and have the right to do so.

Look at that, this one is dirt cheap, also saw virginia 4-4-0 plans that are cheap. Trying to understand why some plans are expensive and some cheap. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Raritan-by-Bil ... 0047.m2108

That Raritan plans CD on ebay is an unauthorized seller who is breaking the law as they do not own the rights to sell those Raritan plans.

Joe Tanski of Tanski Model Engineering out of Eden, NY owns the distribution rights to the Raritan. I think last I saw he sells the drawings book for $35 which is a complete steal.

[gwrdriver]

If that's the case he can be reported to eBay and at least be stopped from selling there.

There have been several notorious copiers, and one guy in the USA I ran afoul of who was selling counterfeit castings for a few of Reeves(UK)'s popular locos using the original castings as patterns. The castings were of course awful and many were essentially unusable due to shrinkage. (Don't ask me how I know this.)

The reason any of these people get away with it is the cost to pursue copyright infringement typically FAR exceeds the potential loss of revenue, and they know that. What's left is the Court of Public Opinion, and they don't give a rat's patoot about what people might think.

[SteveM]

If I remember correctly, LBSC designed over 100 locomotives and built around 50 (an amazing feat when you consider that some the most enthusiastic among us might build a handful of them over a lifetime).

That means he DESIGNED but did not BUILD around 50. The expertise to be able to put onto paper what will work in practice without actually making a working model of it is a skill worth paying for. Now, I know that he made some mistakes - there are a few in my Virginia drawings - but as a body of work, his drawings are pretty amazing.

If I drew up a locomotive, first, it would be childishly simple, like oscillating cylinders, and there'd be a 75% chance that the dimensions would stack up wrong somehow and it would be impossible to build and/or run.

Steve