Silver Brazing Fun
Silver Brazing Fun
First:
This posting refers to the building of snifter valves referred to in the following post by Pipecs "Kombrink's American";
http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/vie ... an#p345715
I followed up and located the original valve construction article In Live Steam Magazine Vol. 36, No. 4: July August 2002, by Greg Lewis.
After asking Greg a question about which solder he used to join the parts, he PMd me with his answer.
And he has since added information to Jack Boderman's posting.
So as not to hijack Jack's thread, here is my experiment trying Greg's indirect heating method for silver brazing small parts.
Following Greg's construction article, I machined the parts to make 4 snifter valves: Next I bent up some sheet metal in the form of a slanted "W" to hold the valve body.
I clamped a slightly bent 1/16th steel rod "frog" to the sheet metal form so that it would clamp the valve body via the hole in the bottom.
The second round body piece of the valve would then seat on the body with gravity holding it in place.
I heated the bottom of the W form with oxy-acet until the black flux and 45% silver solder melted on the valve pieces. (1350 F)
This worked nicely as the melted solder capillary action simply sucked the two parts together, with no harm to the brass.
After cooling and pickling in white vinegar, and then buffing with a small wire wheel in my Dremel tool, the results were as desired: And finally, I installed them on my Ten Wheeler, to replace the 16 year-old non-scale snifter valves.
The other two valves are for a Friend's Ten Wheeler.
Mission accomplished.
So Thank You Greg for your scale valve design and advice.
And Thank You Jack B. for your frog suggestions. (and all others!)
RussN
This posting refers to the building of snifter valves referred to in the following post by Pipecs "Kombrink's American";
http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/vie ... an#p345715
I followed up and located the original valve construction article In Live Steam Magazine Vol. 36, No. 4: July August 2002, by Greg Lewis.
After asking Greg a question about which solder he used to join the parts, he PMd me with his answer.
And he has since added information to Jack Boderman's posting.
So as not to hijack Jack's thread, here is my experiment trying Greg's indirect heating method for silver brazing small parts.
Following Greg's construction article, I machined the parts to make 4 snifter valves: Next I bent up some sheet metal in the form of a slanted "W" to hold the valve body.
I clamped a slightly bent 1/16th steel rod "frog" to the sheet metal form so that it would clamp the valve body via the hole in the bottom.
The second round body piece of the valve would then seat on the body with gravity holding it in place.
I heated the bottom of the W form with oxy-acet until the black flux and 45% silver solder melted on the valve pieces. (1350 F)
This worked nicely as the melted solder capillary action simply sucked the two parts together, with no harm to the brass.
After cooling and pickling in white vinegar, and then buffing with a small wire wheel in my Dremel tool, the results were as desired: And finally, I installed them on my Ten Wheeler, to replace the 16 year-old non-scale snifter valves.
The other two valves are for a Friend's Ten Wheeler.
Mission accomplished.
So Thank You Greg for your scale valve design and advice.
And Thank You Jack B. for your frog suggestions. (and all others!)
RussN
Re: Silver Brazing Fun
And I have no idea why some photos are inverted or sideways.
Just use your imaginations, or travel to Australia and elsewhere...
RussN
Just use your imaginations, or travel to Australia and elsewhere...
RussN
Re: Silver Brazing Fun
Russ...very nice! But damn, now I've got another upgrade to think about this Winter for the Rutland! Don't have enough going already...need to consider making more "locomotive jewelry". Thanks for the show 'n tell! Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
Re: Silver Brazing Fun
My pleasure, Carl.
Especially after having success with new-to-me techniques.
I love the knowledge in this community.
RussN
Especially after having success with new-to-me techniques.
I love the knowledge in this community.
RussN
- Greg_Lewis
- Posts: 3014
- Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 2:44 pm
- Location: Fresno, CA
Re: Silver Brazing Fun
Looks great, Russ. Ta Da!
Greg Lewis, Prop.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 35 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 35 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.
Re: Silver Brazing Fun
Greg:
Thank you for YOUR contributions!
RussN
- Greg_Lewis
- Posts: 3014
- Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 2:44 pm
- Location: Fresno, CA
Re: Silver Brazing Fun
You're more than welcome, Russ. One of the things I like about this hobby is how we all work together. I was once in a hobby that started out like this and then moved into a competitive mode. Away went the camaraderie because folks didn't want to reveal their secrets as they went after trophies. It just wasn't fun anymore.
Greg Lewis, Prop.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 35 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 35 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.
Re: Silver Brazing Fun
Greg:
I'm with you on that. I avoid competitive things. They don't do anything for me.
Wanna race steam locomotives?
RussN
I'm with you on that. I avoid competitive things. They don't do anything for me.
Wanna race steam locomotives?
RussN
Re: Silver Brazing Fun
And of course I found sone dimensional discrepancies in the original LS published article on those snifter valves, and worked around them.
And yesterday I found Greg's posting on the corrections, from 2016!
'Located at the bottom of the page linked in the top posting here.
Those corrections make the valves easier to machine, due to the larger innards.
Still, the snifter valves I made work and look fine.
But next time...
Always learning.
RussN
And yesterday I found Greg's posting on the corrections, from 2016!
'Located at the bottom of the page linked in the top posting here.
Those corrections make the valves easier to machine, due to the larger innards.
Still, the snifter valves I made work and look fine.
But next time...
Always learning.
RussN
-
- Posts: 237
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:21 pm
- Location: So. California
Re: Silver Brazing Fun
What gauge metal would you recommend for the "W"?
Timmy
Timmy
illigitimi non carborundum
- Greg_Lewis
- Posts: 3014
- Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 2:44 pm
- Location: Fresno, CA
Re: Silver Brazing Fun
timmy wheeler wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:08 am What gauge metal would you recommend for the "W"?
Timmy
Whatever is handy. As I mentioned in the other thread, I use a piece of angle iron in the bench vise. The object is to use indirect heat rather than playing the torch flame directly on the part and solder. You want the part to melt the solder. A direct flame can melt the solder before the part is up to temp (and also burn up the flux), thus resulting in poor adhesion, or none at all, between the solder and part.
For large parts I heat from the back side, and for some big ones (the size of, say, a small lemon) I set up some fire brick to make an open-face hutch and use a weed burner to create sort of a furnace. A bit awkward but it works. If I did that often I'd build an oven. (There are two little books out there by Dave Gingery on building shop ovens and furnaces: Atmospheric Forge & Heat Treat Oven; and Li'l Bertha: A Compact Electric Resistance Shop Furnace.)
Greg Lewis, Prop.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 35 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 35 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.
Re: Silver Brazing Fun
I used what I had available: sheet metal about 1/16" thick. It was bendable with my small brake.timmy wheeler wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:08 am What gauge metal would you recommend for the "W"?
Timmy
Thinner might tend to self destruct faster with the oxy-acet heating.
As noted above, Greg uses thicker steel angle.
The goal is to create radiant heating, not direct flame.
It works.
RussN