Logging Disconnects

This forum is dedicated to the Live Steam Hobbyist Community.

Moderators: cbrew, Harold_V

Doug_Edwards
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2003 8:06 pm
Location: No. Idaho
Contact:

Re: Logging Disconnects

Post by Doug_Edwards »

James Powell wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:22 am I think you will find Disconnects were outlawed fairly early on. I think there is something in "Logging Railroads of the West" (Superior), about them not being legal for very long. They didn't allow for air brakes...
Disconnected trucks were used almost into the 60"s (Dec. 31 59 in one case). What is disappointing is that there are so few examples left.

Regards,

Doug
http://www.precisionlocomotivecastings.com/
Building a 70 ton Willamette in 1.6"
Building a 80 ton Climax in 1.6"

"Aim to improve!"
"Mine is not to question why, mine is just to tool and die"
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: Logging Disconnects

Post by ccvstmr »

Doug_Edwards wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 10:25 am Disconnected trucks were used almost into the 60"s (Dec. 31 59 in one case). What is disappointing is that there are so few examples left.
Regards,
Doug
Doug, want to say logging railroad operations appeared to be run on a shoestring budget. Monies were put into motive power primarily. Log carrying cars were built as quickly and cheaply as possible to move the downed timbers to the mill for processing. After all, this was a business.

Since lumber was readily available, that became the material of choice for disconnects. Untreated wood at that. Suspect once the wooden parts for the disconnects were drilled, etc...water could provide it's destructive forces from the inside as well as outside.

At least, there's photos and videos available that helped preserve that type of railroading. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: Logging Disconnects

Post by ccvstmr »

Update Time

It's been a few months since this thread was updated. Sorry. For those of you waiting to see/read what's been going on...here's your chance!

Since the last construction entry, the builder decided to include working hand brakes on the logging disconnects. He was making greater use of his 3D printer for various parts. Didn't realize there were so many different types of materials that could be chosen based on application...and that includes a rubber-ish material that was selected to print brake shoes.

One of the first parts needed for the working hand brake was a brake lever fulcrum. Also printed were brake wheels, brake chain drums along with brake wheel ratchets and pawls. The brake design was progressing. Had to print several different versions of the brake shoes to find the best angle for the shoe to engage the wheel tread.

An original idea to use a couple chain links to support the brake beam was thrown out and replaced with a system similar to the brake hangers made for passenger car build threads featured elsewhere in Chaski.

And the end result for the manual brakes...

IMG_4909.JPG

But wait, there's more. 8 of the 10 logging disconnect trucks (4 pairs) were ready for their outside nature debut. Fighting off the mosquitoes on his home RR, here's a look at the "nearly" completed logging disconnects. Why "nearly"? Well, still need to make the links and pins for the couplers. In fact, sources for 2.5" cast alum scale link/pin couplers seems to have dried up. The guy that was casting these couplers...sold his patterns...but doesn't remember where the patterns went. So, if anybody knows of 2.5" scale cast alum link/pin couplers...please...shout out! Is there a back up plan? You bet. The builder has been able to program a 3D printed link/pin coupler with a core for resin casting...if it comes down to that.

Anyway, here's a few pix with the logging disconnect on the rail...

IMG_4893.JPG
IMG_4895.JPG
IMG_4896.JPG

Don't believe the builder has put one of these trucks on a scale yet. Safe bet these are in the 50 to 60 pound range for each truck. With most of the weight in the wheel/axle sets that were purchased. Some of the cast iron journals were purchased. But once again, the builder opted to see if he could design/print an acceptable plastic journal. Time will tell how these will hold up to use and abuse.

In addition to the working hand brakes, the trunnion pivots on the bolster and the log chocks are on the trunnion are independently adjustable. The bolster rides on (4) springs,..and this is the only suspension for the truck. The journals are mounted solidly in the side frames. The couplers are sprung and allow for minimal side swing and twist motion.

Will be right back. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: Logging Disconnects

Post by ccvstmr »

Moment of Truth

From the start, these 2.5" scale models were going to be "working" logging disconnects. An idea to make faux looking looks from tight cell insulation material fizzled when it was found insects had another idea for material stored outside. Time for Plan B.

Storms in the area knocked down a couple pine trees on the builder's property. Okay, the builder was going to have LIVE loads!

The first log was lifted and "muscled" into place on the trunnions. The log chocks were eventually moved to prevent the log from lateral movement. There was a concern about the bolster suspension. The builder put a spring-in-a-spring to offer additional support if needed.

Supposedly, there's a web site where one can punch in the log diameter, log length and type of wood (maybe even insert wet or try logs) and out pops a log weight. The first log was estimated to be 300 pounds. A 300 pound load on (8) spring points is 37.5 pounds per spring...which isn't terribly excessive. Could be the extra springing wasn't really needed.

IMG_4900.jpg

A second log was determined to be in the 285 pound range. Word had it, the 285 pound log did not compress the springs differently than the 300 pound log on the double sprung disconnects.

IMG_4902.JPG

Next effort will be to make enough links and pins for the (10) trucks. Will most likely "chain" the pins to the trucks so they don't get lost along the right of way.

In many of the logging railroad photos, sometimes chains and binders were used to hold the log loads in place. Other times, good old gravity was left to the job alone. Not sure with the logs used in the above photos...if THEY want to roll...LET 'EM GO!

Some of you might be wondering how one goes about moving 300 pounds logs? LEVERAGE! Here's a locomotive lifter being used for log lifting, moving and placing...(with an extra pair of hands to position the disconnects near the end of the log)...

IMG_4901.JPG

Not sure if there's anything else to tell about this project. But if something comes up...will be back to share. Thanks for reading. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
User avatar
milwiron
Posts: 156
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:52 pm
Location: Flanagan, IL.

Re: Logging Disconnects

Post by milwiron »

Ccvstmr asked about 2.5 inch scale aluminum link and pin couplers. Odd Duck Foundry who often posts on this board can cast 2.5" link and pins in bronze, perhaps he could also do aluminum. He's a good person do deal with, I'll be ordering some bronze L&P's from him this fall.
Denny
"Measure twice, curse once."
User avatar
NP317
Posts: 4557
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:57 pm
Location: Northern Oregon, USA

Re: Logging Disconnects

Post by NP317 »

For hauling large logs on disconnect trucks, chaining the logs to the bunks literally held the train together. Hmmm. Never a good idea on down grades.

I've seen pictures where the disconnect trucks were coupled together by a piece of railroad rail pinned in place.
Food for thought.
RussN
User avatar
shayloco
Posts: 264
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 11:00 am
Location: Rhode Island

Re: Logging Disconnects

Post by shayloco »

I've seen pictures where the disconnect trucks were coupled together by a piece of railroad rail pinned in place.
Food for thought.
RussN
Some logging railroads called that a "rooster". At the EBL in New Hampshire the roosters were made of wood with metal ends.

I am going to modify my metal disconnects to use two concentric springs in each bolster, one weak but tall one and one shorter but strong one. When they are unloaded they run on the weaker spring so they can be more compliant with the rail. When loaded they will run on the heavier springs.

Nice work on the disconnects Carl!
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: Logging Disconnects

Post by ccvstmr »

milwiron wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:30 am Ccvstmr asked about 2.5 inch scale aluminum link and pin couplers. Odd Duck Foundry who often posts on this board can cast 2.5" link and pins in bronze, perhaps he could also do aluminum. He's a good person do deal with, I'll be ordering some bronze L&P's from him this fall.
Denny
Denny...great lead. Have already contacted Odd Duck and while he doesn't have anything in stock...that can change...or maybe he'll fire up his furnaces later in the year. Thanks. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: Logging Disconnects

Post by ccvstmr »

NP317 wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:47 am For hauling large logs on disconnect trucks, chaining the logs to the bunks literally held the train together. Hmmm. Never a good idea on down grades.

I've seen pictures where the disconnect trucks were coupled together by a piece of railroad rail pinned in place.
Food for thought.
RussN
Hello Russ...have seen photos of those "poles" in use too. Saw some interesting practices performed on the inclined railways in the Pac. NW too. Of course, to keep logs from sliding off the load on the downgrade...that's where the downgrade bulkhead idea originated.

For all practical purposes, would seem the logs themselves formed the center sill for the cars. So maybe the only time those poles were used was when the disconnects were being moved "light".

Otherwise, both ends of these model 2.5" scale disconnects have provisions at both ends for coupler links 'n pins.

Thanx for the info. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: Logging Disconnects

Post by ccvstmr »

shayloco wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:52 pm
I am going to modify my metal disconnects to use two concentric springs in each bolster, one weak but tall one and one shorter but strong one. When they are unloaded they run on the weaker spring so they can be more compliant with the rail. When loaded they will run on the heavier springs.

Nice work on the disconnects Carl!
Hello Shayloco...I was just the unhired help for this project. Did my best to make sure the finished product looked better than something a 1st time builder or hack might have thrown together. It was incredible the number of pieces that had to be made for these trucks. And there was about half a hardware store worth of fasteners involved too...so it seemed.

Have heard of others doing exactly what you described with a double spring config. Yes, the idea works. Hopefully, you can find the right springs for the job (diameter x length x wire gauge). In fact, did something like that with the springs on the old time passenger car trucks built for the "shorty" cars and another friend's Central Pacific passenger cars. The idea worked there.

When it comes to Mr. Logging Disconnect...he's one to use what he's already got in the shop for a quick 'n dirty upgrade. If more springs would be needed...there's always 1-800-McMaster Carr (you get the idea).

Hard to believe it took the better part of 9 months to complete...and that's with all the other irons my friend has in the fire at any one time! Good to hear from you. Thanks for the compliment. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
User avatar
NP317
Posts: 4557
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:57 pm
Location: Northern Oregon, USA

Re: Logging Disconnects

Post by NP317 »

"Rooster"
That's the name I could not extract from my over-full brain.
Thanks, shayloco.
RussN
rkcarguy
Posts: 1730
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am
Location: Wa State

Re: Logging Disconnects

Post by rkcarguy »

Beautiful work on the disconnects. The look like a dream to build for someone with access to a plasma or laser plate cutting table.
The safe part of me wants to see those logs chained down. In all the pictures I've seen of these, the only needed finish would be to drop them in seawater to develop a nice coat of rust and then slather the rest of the moving parts in grease and let wood chips stick to everything:)
Post Reply