Little engines 1" line of engines

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Rich_Carlstedt
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Re: Little engines 1" line of engines

Post by Rich_Carlstedt »

What Jack said is so important !.
I posted this on another thread earlier, but the thought must (!) be realized by members of our hobby.
This was in response to criticism (right or wrong ) about a vendor:
This is a Hobby, never forget that, and appreciate what you have today, it may not be there tomorrow !
===============================================
Hey guys, maybe all the complaints are true, or they may not, but you have to cut some slack for hobby suppliers.
Yes, you can order from Amazon and get it tomorrow, but be a hobby supplier yourself and try to get a foundry to pour just 6 "small" castings, or wait until your shop comes up with a new pattern- because the old one does not fit the requirements of a foundry because they have newer methods etc,etc,etc.
I have not talked to Tom in well over a year and have not ordered from him, BUT PLEASE realize this is a hobby !
Many of the "suppliers" to live steam that I have known over the past 45 years were hand to mouth operations.
Never knew one who became rich off our hobby !
And I would not trade places with them for economic reasons. never !
Did you ever wonder why there is not more of them ?
They mostly do it out of their love of the hobby,,,,so cut them some slack.
They have kids that are screwing up, or have had heart attacks or their dog died...just like we all experience in life,
They may have to wait until they have $ 500 in the bank to pay the shop making the nuts to go in the package sitting on the shelf to the guy in Podunk Montana for his steam engine and the vendor has you on hold etc, etc
Yes, comment on quality and delivery , but be kind .

Rich
optigman
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Re: Little engines 1" line of engines

Post by optigman »

Well said! For those who think a supplier should have $250,000 of castings and supplies / parts laying around just waiting for a few people to finally decide they want $10 worth of "stuff" had better check reality. Might be best for the complainers to equip a Patternshop. Learn how to make patterns. Find a foundry that might make a casting that is usable. Or buy a bunch of 3D printers and print the parts or buy them from known suppliers. Equip a machine shop. Not make any mistakes. Build an engine and get on with their life. Thank your lucky stars for the people who offer stuff for sale if you are not up to doing it all yourself. From what I have seen for the past 50 years I certainly would not want to offer ANYTHING for sale in this hobby and expect to pay a mortgage, raise a family, buy food, send kids to college and pay medical insurance thinking our brother hobbiests would ever want to support our businesses. Nuff said. I'm not trying to make excuses for those who take deposits and don't deliver. Others are correct when they state that most suppliers are doing it as a labor of love. The bulk of vendors are honest and ethical and it's a shame that a few tarnish the other suppliers unjustly. The manufacturing industry in the good old US of A is a mere skeleton of what it once was. Very few sand foundries remain. Quality is lacking. Deliveries are not reliable. Prices are thru the roof. It is not only the metal casting industry that has dropped to the bottom of the ocean either. I could go on and on. Either support what is left or do it yourself and blame no one. It's an involved hobby that requires skill and knowledge. If anybody is expecting same day service and can't wait then this might not be the correct hobby to get involved in. 2 day delivery does no good if the supplier is waiting for their supplier to deliver product that is over a month or more late. I suppose they could move in with their supplier to monitor progress daily but that might be short lived. So before a negitave Yelp review is left on social media it might be best to take a harder look at the current situation and realize that nothing ever happens fast in this hobby. Be thankful that we have some very dedicated people that continue to supply many products for one of the most unique and rewarding hobbies there is.
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Harold_V
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Re: Little engines 1" line of engines

Post by Harold_V »

It appears to me that the real problem with some vendors isn't being addressed, and, for them, I am not sympathetic, nor should I be. That's the one whereby lip service is provided, so false hope is instilled in the buyer, when the seller knows damned well the delivery won't be met. Why is it one can't get an honest response from such people? If it's going to be six weeks, or six months, why not tell the buyer, who deserves to know the status of an order? Why must an inquiry be met with dishonesty? I have an intense dislike for people like that and would gladly throw them a rock when they needed a floatation device.

I am personally acquainted with an individual who waited years before taking delivery of an engine ordered under the premise of a short delivery. He was told, repeatedly, that it would be shipped in the near future, which, of course, never happened. Thousands of dollars had been prepaid. That's no way to treat a customer.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
thunderskunk
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Little engines 1" line of engines

Post by thunderskunk »

I don’t disagree; Honesty is a better all around policy over unfounded promises and a lack of proper updates.

I read the other thread too, and it seems like this is a different subject entirely. This isn’t a product that’s promised, it’s new development. Hopefully nobody has made big claims to bring back these castings by a certain time, because Optigman was right, the casting industry is different. Unless you’re willing to do the brunt work yourself, suppliers are either going to have to charge outrageous prices for the same old products, or find cheaper ways to essentially redevelop old designs. That takes time and money.

In the shoes of a casting provider, you’re creating a new part for someone who won’t know for several months, possibly years, if there might be a defect or design flaw which causes the customer problems. I don’t blame them for both taking their time or canning a product line to ensure the current products are up to snuff.
"We'll cross that bridge once we realize nobody ever built one."
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Highiron
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Re: Little engines 1" line of engines

Post by Highiron »

Here's what I will tell you about the little engines small skyline I looked into bringing it all back starting with the three-quarter inch scale and I park that off to the side because I felt there wasn't enough interest in it I have spent the last year collecting drawings for the one in scale still not having a complete set of any other than the Camelback and some of the drawings we do have are very ill legible trying to clean them up or eat raw them is difficult I have started with the Pacific and the frame is done we are currently working on a master driver pattern and cat drawings have been done for the cylinder block I have had several people interested in Parts but make no promises and no deadlines my rigging business is busy right now that's what put food on my table not bringing back the one in scale line of the little engines product we have acquired and mass amount of original cast things to try and ate us and the rebuilding I'm looking in investing close to six figures to do this but I am starting to get a lot of crap from a lot of people wanting parts and if it continues it won't be worth my time as u-haul pointed out this is going to be a labor of love I will get to it as time allows but right now I have to do what I have to do to pay the bills and spending money and leaps and bounds making new patterns pattern boards and putting inventory on the Shelf isn't going to do it

They say good things comes to those who wait be patient and it will eventually come back but if you're in a hurry write me a check by what's left and do it yourself

Mike Venezia
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Bill Shields
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Re: Little engines 1" line of engines

Post by Bill Shields »

Irrespective of delivery times and promises by others.....

Many people fail to realize the magnitude of the work involved in providing / supporting these products...in terms of $$ and time.

They then complain about the cost to get a good product....they want things at 1950's prices..

This is truly unfortunate.
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
JKreider
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Re: Little engines 1" line of engines

Post by JKreider »

Optigman is right on in regard to carrying an inventory, availability of good foundries, and making any “good’ money in the live steam business. There is a lot of “labor of love’ in what may suppliers do, as I think that some suppliers get a lot of satisfaction seeing others do something really nice with the parts that we suppliers provide. I almost had tears in my eyes when someone told me that a club member quipped that “Kreider just did that for profit”. There was some profit, yes, but nowhere near enough to justify the total overall effort.
I’ve always tried to be very honest with those buying parts from me. My dad told me when I was growing up, “always tell the truth. It is the easiest story to repeat”. The truth is very often not what the buyer wants to hear, but that is the way it is.
Sometimes the end user of the parts that those of us supply to the live steam community do not come near to appreciating the grief that we incur getting them good quality castings, particularly when those castings tend to be on the more complicated side. I've spent a lot of time on the mold floor of foundries showing them how to set cores, install gates and risers, and making sure the mold was closed up right. Then I sometimes would put on a mask and go in the cleanup area and try to make sure, and instill in the guys, not to take off too much and grind away detail. There are still no guarantees as they might forget what you told them.

Jim Kreider
Mike Walsh
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Re: Little engines 1" line of engines

Post by Mike Walsh »

I can attest to Jim's experience. Many times have I had to go out to the floor to very explicitly explain to the cleaning team members where I work how to properly clean these castings. We have a process database and I spent most of my time documenting all of these very specific notes, along with photographs explaining these notes. They love to get grind happy.

I understand your very pains, Jim. I also had the opportunity to pick up a complete set of patterns for a locomotive, at a very reasonable price, and because of my exposure to the foundry world as well as my position in life, I had to pass. No way could I take on this project, and be able to complete the projects I have in the shop right now. Props, Jim. Many props.
Marty_Knox
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Re: Little engines 1" line of engines

Post by Marty_Knox »

Foundries! Ah yes, Foundries! When we took over Allen Models we tried 3 different foundries before we found one that could pour the cylinders without burning up the cores. They made beautiful castings, but our price per cylinder was more than what Gene sold a pair for.
wewilliams
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Re: Little engines 1" line of engines

Post by wewilliams »

I have a good friend that makes tractor parts - I've seen him get messed over by foundries several times. Now, he now buys parts from Taiwan & China.
t3kboi
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Re: Little engines 1" line of engines

Post by t3kboi »

(I know this is an old thread)

I have acquired an LE 1" 0-4-0T that is mostly complete.
I am a total live steam noob, though....

I was wondering if anyone may have drawings for this loco?
I am also wondering if there are any operating instructions for the oil burner, or online resources about operating them.
Mike Walsh
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Re: Little engines 1" line of engines

Post by Mike Walsh »

Nothing wrong with popping in on an old thread. It's not -that- old.

Where are you located? Some folks might be able to offer help if you need it.

Send me a PM regarding drawings.
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