Great Northern GE 44 ton Center Cab Electric restoration

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rkcarguy
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Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am
Location: Wa State

Re: Great Northern GE 44 ton Center Cab Electric restoration

Post by rkcarguy »

Yes, I expect to have both the driveway and the ROW consume gravel, one of the reasons for the little dozer restoration project and rubber tracks/hydraulic upgrade.
While I may not have any extra gravel left after this first go, I'm leaving an area to have a pile dumped and figure it will be an ongoing maintenance item.
No problem on the brake shoe parts, PM me when you are ready.
Glenn Brooks
Posts: 2930
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: Great Northern GE 44 ton Center Cab Electric restoration

Post by Glenn Brooks »

Front End Friday: mounted the coupler pockets and fabed/installed front end louvers this week. Just finished in time for FEF.
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Real happy that the louvers will drop out of the front end, by removing 10 small screws through the louvers frame. This makes the louvers functional - allowing significant air flow into the hood end to disparate heat from the electric traction motor, and authentic. The Whitcomb center cabs all had distinctive, recessed, side by side louvers assemblies on each hood end. The GE 44 toner center cabs sported a single louvers set, running all the way across the front end.

This loco originally was modeled on the GE 44 toner center cab design. But, now, I suppose it just became a
Whitcomb! Like the Whitcomb’s more, anyway.

Glenn
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Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
ccvstmr
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Re: Great Northern GE 44 ton Center Cab Electric restoration

Post by ccvstmr »

Glen...care to share how you fabricated your louvers? Type of metal...thickness...and then (of course) how do you press/stamp/bend/fold/spindle or mutilate the sheet metal to form the openings...and index for the next punch. Curious minds would like to know. Thx. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
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Glenn Brooks
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Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: Great Northern GE 44 ton Center Cab Electric restoration

Post by Glenn Brooks »

Carl, I went the easy route and scrounged them from a guy who was getting out of metal working. I think they are factory stamped with some kind of die machine. The metal is fairly heavy gauge galvanized sheet metal- likely a bit thinner than 14 gauge- fairly stiff.

The louvers are 6” x 15/16”. Looks like the key to aligning them is drawing the lines at fixed that show where to align the edge of the punch. Then slitting the edge. Although some people just draw the lines and punch through.

Most videos say to use hardened steel, although quite a few home built punch’s seem to do ok with mild steel. Haven’t discovered yet if hardened cutting edges are definitely required.

I was thinking of making a die and punching them myself, but then remembered I had these on hand - so cut these down to size...

Here’s a you tube video I was studying that shows how to make a simple louvers press..

https://youtu.be/1f-VwmwKZIk

Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
Glenn Brooks
Posts: 2930
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: Great Northern GE 44 ton Center Cab Electric restoration

Post by Glenn Brooks »

Closing in on the final stages of the superstructure rebuild. Right now, focusing on the paint scheme, and how to get the body prepped for painting, or powder coating at lowest cost. Looking like $500 or so for commercial sandblasting - which it needs.

So far, focusing on a bright, glossy urethane DIY Orange/dark green livery, with yellow trim - similar to the Great Northern, now Burlington Northern Santa Fe color scheme. But possibly with reverse color bands, such as displayed by the Wisconsin Great Northern short line, in the first photo.
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Or, If you look closely at the third photo, you can see a distinctly traditional BNSF dark forest green hue - it’s definitely not black paint...
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Any thoughts?

Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
rkcarguy
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Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am
Location: Wa State

Re: Great Northern GE 44 ton Center Cab Electric restoration

Post by rkcarguy »

As a kid, I saw Milwaukee Road, and both the Orange/Green and Blue/White/Black GN paint schemes operate here, with Northern Pacific running further south. I'm not sure if you are wanting to model a pre-existing RR or do your own thing and road name though. GN and BNSF both used a very dark green indeed, not black. I think there is some discussion on here with codes for that GN green color, someone had quite a difficult time getting the color correct for some passenger cars if I remember correctly.
I decided to have my own road name which will have its own bulkhead flat cars, but ultimately served by an SP switcher with a GN 34' hopper for the control/riding car.
Glenn Brooks
Posts: 2930
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: Great Northern GE 44 ton Center Cab Electric restoration

Post by Glenn Brooks »

Yep, pretty much settled on the early NP orange and green color scheme, but with a slightly different dark green. Just can’t get used to the pastel muddy green algae look, popular in the 60’s. Kind of like living with original green Shag carpet. And not keen on the match with the dark Pullman greens and orange, that seem to be prevalent on some early day roads. The green I found is Black looking in the shade, but a definite glossy deep forest green in direct sun. Plus it compliments the bright orange real well... also, having trouble getting prep and paint quotes. One shop quoted $3000 prep and urethane top coat. Way over my budget. Two other places just ignore my inquiries. So my plan is to get it sandblasted, pay the price for epoxy or two part undercoat and DIY spray with urethane, myself.

This week finished extending the frame for the cab, plus, added Angle iron frame supports for the roof over the new battery boxes, front and rear of the cab.

First cut the rivets and removed the old rusty sheet metal roof.
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Then extended the length of the frame and added 5” roof extensions each side. This converts the original roof to the wider and longer dimensions of the expanded cab space. Plus, no new metal was harmed in the making of this frame. All the extension pieces were recycled from the original bits and pieces I cut out of the structure originally.
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Ended the day setting the cab frame on top of the structure to see if everything matches up. Mostly yes!
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I think I can cut 2” or so more off the roof supports, lowering the cab structure a bit more. I’ll decide on this next week, after I remeasure and confirm needed height for the batteries.
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Next week might be able wrap up Phase 2: body and frame, and send it off to the paint shop. If I can find someone that actually wants to do the work...

Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
rkcarguy
Posts: 1730
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Re: Great Northern GE 44 ton Center Cab Electric restoration

Post by rkcarguy »

Glenn Brooks wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 6:21 pm One shop quoted $3000 prep and urethane top coat. Way over my budget. Two other places just ignore my inquiries. So my plan is to get it sandblasted, pay the price for epoxy or two part undercoat and DIY spray with urethane, myself.
The costs end up skyrocketing when you start getting into multiple colors and patterns, not so much the painting but the masking labor and everything involved getting the colors just right without any bleed under at the masking lines. It looks like your paint scheme would allow for yellow pinstripe to cover any bleed under though. I am going to be having my locomotive frame blasted and epoxy primed and the rest I will paint myself as well. The aluminum body will get the scotch-brite treatment down to shiny metal, zinc chromate primer, and then grey 646 epoxy paint with red spray painted ends and vinyl decals. I'm actually impressed with the newer Rustoleum spray paints, the red color I used on the headlight "tube" has held up pretty well with all the work going on around it. I think we have to expect scratches will happen so I don't think it's a bad idea to use spray paint over a good coat of primer and maybe your base color, and carefully touch up as needed. For example you could have the whole thing painted that dark green and then add the orange on your own.

Keep in mind the sand blast can really wreak havoc on thin sheet metal, I'd be more apt to use some scotch-brite on an orbital sander before I'd risk blasting any thin gage metal. You have a truck canopy so hopefully you can get it to paint without it getting wet and growing any flash rust before it's primed.
Glenn Brooks
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Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: Great Northern GE 44 ton Center Cab Electric restoration

Post by Glenn Brooks »

Ryan,

Yes, Ive decided on sandblasting the frame and going with a shop that is experienced in sheet metal.and having the vendor do the undercoat with epoxy or urethane primer to seal everything the same day they clean up the frame. Then I’ll spray it myself. If I could get one color top coat sprayed on the cheap, might consider that as well.

Or One color powder coat with me spraying the second coat with lacquer might be an option- although OTC available colors are quite limited, so I’d have to go all international Orange and special mix dark green for the DIY part.. Choices, choices.

The one good thing about dithering around for weeks and months, is the extra time gives you plenty of opportunity to look at all the outcomes , and decide what to do.

Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
Glenn Brooks
Posts: 2930
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: Great Northern GE 44 ton Center Cab Electric restoration

Post by Glenn Brooks »

Quick followup to my frame upgrades. Went for a bike ride yesterday and took a header on the way back to the car, jamming the knee cap and ligaments. So maybe will be laid up for awhile. This is why my photos aren't very complete.

Basically, I extended the original roof top framing depicted a few posts above, by adding 5” extensions to both sides of the roof frame. Then welded longitudinal edge pieces around the outside. These roof extensions brings the roof out to the new, widened, edge of cab.

Edge framed and ready to accept the new sheet metal roof.
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And, in a series of “Ah-Ha” moments, welded hinges to the rear frame supports of the roof, to create an aircraft style clamshell type canopy opening. So, now I can rotate the roof up to vertical for “deplaning” - stand up, and exit the cab like a proper gentleman. I call this the “Spitfire” modification, in honor of the sliding cockpit designs of The famous Supermarine Spitfire fighter of the Battle of Britain, and later USnavy Daultless torpedo fighter bombers - of which my dad flew as a rear seatman in the Pacific. (Yep, I know Spitfires, indeed most WW2 fighters incorporated sliding canopies, not clamshells.) still, I love the name for the concept, and its quick, flexible action.

One problem... when vertical, first gen front roof supports extended horizontally over the top of the cab. After cracking my head on the front of these head bangers numerous times, I realized I could weld the front supports to the frame, and cut them off at the top of roof, rather than the bottom. Which I did post haste. So now, the Spitfire mechanism works perfectly! No hard hats, helmets, or head bandages are required to enter or exit the locomotive. though my photos doesn’t show it very well.

These mods also provided a good solution to framing out the side cab extension and adding windows and sheet metal body parts.the front structure will be attached to the frame, and the rear 8” side window portion will be part of the roof. The rear side windows will rotate upwards and to the rear, when the roof opens. Perfect, I hope. Also, The lower, mid part of the lengthened cab will have a generous 20” wide door, hinged to open and close- with two sliding center windows on top, that retract into the small, fixed 8” windows fore and aft. Complicated, but I think it will work...

Yesterday I got as far as shaping a pattern out of discarded sheet metal to enclose the roof outline, before riding off into the sunset and banging up my knee. Finished photos latter... hopefully sooner than later.
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Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
Glenn Brooks
Posts: 2930
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: Great Northern GE 44 ton Center Cab Electric restoration

Post by Glenn Brooks »

Closing up the shop for the winter, and getting ready to start work laying a 15” ga RR.

Wasn’t able to finish up the sheetmetal bodywork due to a knee injury end of August. But did finish all the structural work for the cab and hood ends, and finally sourced some appropriate rubber edge trim to mount the windows. Also cut and prepped the inspection doors for each hood end (6 in total), and mounted the doors to the engineers compartment. So some progress at least. Next spring it will wrap up fairly quickly. Hahaha.

These last photos show the finished and primed structure, and a closeup shot of my attempt at riveting sheet metal to the frame.
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The really cool thing I am most proud of is hinging the top of the cab, to swing up and back, out of the way, when the engineer wants to enter or dismount the cab. All kinds of cool things you can do when the train is large enuf...

Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
Glenn Brooks
Posts: 2930
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: Great Northern GE 44 ton Center Cab Electric restoration

Post by Glenn Brooks »

Grabbed a couple of photos of the pivoting cab top...
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Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
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