Argent Lumber 3 spot
Moderator: Harold_V
Argent Lumber 3 spot
First, I'd like to say thanks for the long discussions that have gotten me to this point. Sideframes are done, drivers and pilot truck are done. These cylinders were a major thinking exercise, but I am now spitting distance from completion of that major hurdle. I'm a single dad with a 40+ hour job, so time is limited
First, what I am working on - All is being made from durabar. Bronze would have been very expensive, and I just wanted the good qualities of cast iron, messy as it is to machine.
The blocks forming the chest/saddle were bored on the lathe using a big spade bit (APT Multi-tool) I had to build a table for my top slide to replace the compound.
I'd tried to bore on the mill, that would be the dud with the red dykem on the right. The 5 degree pitch on the cylinders was a big part of the problem. Exhaust port is not done yet in these photos.
Porter states they provided sloped cylinders on smaller engines for clearance. This engine was built about 1920. Baldwin's catalogue says sloped cylinders and wagon top boilers were gone by about 1867. Evidently Henry K Porter did not get the memo.
Evidently, on this engine, even that clearance wasn't enough. I found why there is the oddball "lumber RR" brace on the cylinders on the prototype - there is a visible break in the left steam chest on the rear side. Porter made one of their selling points that they could supply spare parts rapidly, but I guess that would have cost actual money. I plan on replicating the brace on my model.
Here they are after cutting away the waste bits of the big block, finishing porting, providing for some lagging, and providing for the cylinder cocks. The flange left at the bottom of the chest will be bolted to the frame, and the saddle will bolt to the frame and the chest. That's the waste bits of the block to the left.
Looks like I have hit my photo limit for this post.
I plan to silver solder the assemblies together. I did some tests with 4% silver-96% tin solder, and got good results. It also melts at a much lower temp than the high silver stuff, so no worries about hitting critical temp on the cast iron and ending up with white iron - the expression "harder than the hinges of hell" would apply to the white iron. I plan on tinning both surfaces, then assembling and sweating them together.
If the silver solder method fails, I've found some hi temp sealants suitable for steam use, and can do a mechanical join.
First, what I am working on - All is being made from durabar. Bronze would have been very expensive, and I just wanted the good qualities of cast iron, messy as it is to machine.
The blocks forming the chest/saddle were bored on the lathe using a big spade bit (APT Multi-tool) I had to build a table for my top slide to replace the compound.
I'd tried to bore on the mill, that would be the dud with the red dykem on the right. The 5 degree pitch on the cylinders was a big part of the problem. Exhaust port is not done yet in these photos.
Porter states they provided sloped cylinders on smaller engines for clearance. This engine was built about 1920. Baldwin's catalogue says sloped cylinders and wagon top boilers were gone by about 1867. Evidently Henry K Porter did not get the memo.
Evidently, on this engine, even that clearance wasn't enough. I found why there is the oddball "lumber RR" brace on the cylinders on the prototype - there is a visible break in the left steam chest on the rear side. Porter made one of their selling points that they could supply spare parts rapidly, but I guess that would have cost actual money. I plan on replicating the brace on my model.
Here they are after cutting away the waste bits of the big block, finishing porting, providing for some lagging, and providing for the cylinder cocks. The flange left at the bottom of the chest will be bolted to the frame, and the saddle will bolt to the frame and the chest. That's the waste bits of the block to the left.
Looks like I have hit my photo limit for this post.
I plan to silver solder the assemblies together. I did some tests with 4% silver-96% tin solder, and got good results. It also melts at a much lower temp than the high silver stuff, so no worries about hitting critical temp on the cast iron and ending up with white iron - the expression "harder than the hinges of hell" would apply to the white iron. I plan on tinning both surfaces, then assembling and sweating them together.
If the silver solder method fails, I've found some hi temp sealants suitable for steam use, and can do a mechanical join.
Last edited by rudd on Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Argent Lumber 3 spot
Here's the other photo showing the porting.
As mentioned, I completed the pilot truck. It is not a Bissel truck, I copied it from Argent 7, another H K Porter that happens to be much closer to me than the 3. I may live to regret not doing the Bissel. The pilot will be equalized with the front driver pair.
I did the front portion of the frame as a separate assembly, just in case I outsmarted myself and decided to go with kit cylinders. Easy enough to waterjet out a couple new pieces and machine to fit. I'll mechanically attach those pieces to the main frame rails, or weld if that looks like a better solution.
As mentioned, I completed the pilot truck. It is not a Bissel truck, I copied it from Argent 7, another H K Porter that happens to be much closer to me than the 3. I may live to regret not doing the Bissel. The pilot will be equalized with the front driver pair.
I did the front portion of the frame as a separate assembly, just in case I outsmarted myself and decided to go with kit cylinders. Easy enough to waterjet out a couple new pieces and machine to fit. I'll mechanically attach those pieces to the main frame rails, or weld if that looks like a better solution.
- Greg_Lewis
- Posts: 3023
- Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 2:44 pm
- Location: Fresno, CA
Re: Argent Lumber 3 spot
Looking good. What a cool locomotive! Looking forward to watching your progress.
Greg Lewis, Prop.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 35 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 35 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.
Re: Argent Lumber 3 spot
Awesome project! One of my favorite railroads. How do you plan to make the Rushton stack?
Dan Watson
Chattanooga, TN
Chattanooga, TN
Re: Argent Lumber 3 spot
I'm living by the old adage of "how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time."
Honestly, I haven't given it much thought, but the idea of turning a wood mandrel and forming copper over it has crossed my mind. Metal spinning would be another way, but I don't think my lathe is up to that. It's a long way down the road. I'm a couple years from retirement, things should move faster after that.
Honestly, I haven't given it much thought, but the idea of turning a wood mandrel and forming copper over it has crossed my mind. Metal spinning would be another way, but I don't think my lathe is up to that. It's a long way down the road. I'm a couple years from retirement, things should move faster after that.
- Greg_Lewis
- Posts: 3023
- Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 2:44 pm
- Location: Fresno, CA
Re: Argent Lumber 3 spot
Heh heh heh. Perhaps some of us geezers should enlighten this youngster. Sometimes I think I should go back to work so I'll have more time.
Greg Lewis, Prop.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 35 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 35 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.
Re: Argent Lumber 3 spot
Metal spinning for the toroidal section of the stack would be very doable, especially with a soft metal like copper. The hard part would be figuring how to get the wooden form out, after you are done!
Dan Watson
Chattanooga, TN
Chattanooga, TN
Re: Argent Lumber 3 spot
That would probably work! And, probably anneal the copper also. When spinning, one would need to use lubrication and a soft forming tool, like wood, to avoid marring the copper. One problem would be how to re-anneal the copper if it work-hardens, without un-soldering the joint or burning up the wood former.
Dan Watson
Chattanooga, TN
Chattanooga, TN
- Steamer Al
- Posts: 109
- Joined: Tue May 26, 2020 3:17 am
- Location: Comox, BC
Re: Argent Lumber 3 spot
Would it be possible to make a wooden form in multiple peices, with one "key peice" you can pull out and have the whole thing collapse in and come out in peices? If you had a couple of references, you could remove it for annealing and re-install. I havent done anything similar myself, but may be an idea. Looks like a fascinating project.
Re: Argent Lumber 3 spot
Seems to me you could make a "half form" for the "onion" and make two halves, then solder them together. The drawings in MH Ferrel's book note a "weld" around the circumference, which could be a parting line I suppose. This line is visible in the photo at the top of the thread.
I find it a little hard to think they would have welded those pieces together when they already had the rivet gun out, and welding was not what it is now.
I'll have to climb up and see if 7's stack is cast or sheet metal next time I am there.
I find it a little hard to think they would have welded those pieces together when they already had the rivet gun out, and welding was not what it is now.
I'll have to climb up and see if 7's stack is cast or sheet metal next time I am there.
Re: Argent Lumber 3 spot
collapsible core- exactly how many molds are done.Steamer Al wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:32 pm Would it be possible to make a wooden form in multiple peices, with one "key peice" you can pull out and have the whole thing collapse in and come out in peices? If you had a couple of references, you could remove it for annealing and re-install. I havent done anything similar myself, but may be an idea. Looks like a fascinating project.
-Frank K.