A Couple More

Where users can chronicle their builds. Start one thread and continue to add on to it.

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ccvstmr
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A Couple More

Post by ccvstmr »

Following the work and completion of the Sierra Ry style shorty passenger cars described in April this year the the Chaski Build Log titled: Couple of Shorties, it was time to get going on Honest Dave's passenger cars. Since his baggage car would be carrying a 20# propane cylinder to fuel his Disney 4-4-0 and battery module and air compressor module for brakes, it was important that the baggage car be rail-worthy as soon as possible.

While many of the techniques used to build the shorties were used in the construction of these next passenger cars, Honest Dave threw a few change orders as construction got underway (don't you just hate last minute changes? Don't answer that!). Readers might notice of photos from the Couple of Shorties articles where there was some commonality will be used again.

INTRO

During a visit to Paul Anderman's C&NW RR (that's Cheap & Nothing Wasted) in Oswego, IL in 2016, a string of old time passenger cars was seen sitting on the upper level rack in the equipment storage building. Turns out, these were the old time passenger cars originally built by ILS (Illinois) member, Oakley Little. "Oak" was also responsible for making the old time passenger truck patterns and getting those cast many years ago. The cars were labeled for Oak's railroad...Little Central. The journal covers on the trucks have an "LC" to denote Little Central as well.

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The were the types of cars Dave wanted behind his Disney CP 173 4-4-0, but would letter his cars Central Pacific to go with the #173. Should be noted, Oak built the original passenger cars after seeing a Model Railroader Magazine article about the 1st Division of the St. Paul & Pacific RR in the June 1967 issue. The passenger cars were typical 1860's era passenger equipment. Line drawings were published in the magazine. Dave was able to get copies of the drawings and have them enlarged to 1.5" scale for modeling purposes.

Knew from the start, concessions would have to be made regarding equipment length. The original baggage car was 46.6 feet long beam to beam...which scales down to 70" long. The original coach car was 51.6' long beam to beam...which scales down to 77.5" long. With an engine house storage track nominally 20 feet long, the length of all the equipment including the locomotive was cutting the available storage space too close. It was decided to make the coach AND baggage cars the same length. Figured it would be easier to transport and lock down equipment that was the same length for transport purposes as well.

It should be noted that much of the hardware had already been fabricated when the shorties were in progress. Once tooled up and fixtures prepared, it's just as easy to make sets of parts for (4) passenger cars as it was for (2) passenger cars. The trucks (4 pairs) had already been machined, painted, assembled, etc. Corner steps were fabricated and painted. The same for the end beams with railings as well as the right angle hand rails on the ends of the car. There were several items that we held off on...until the shorties needed those parts. Then, enough parts would be made for all (4) passenger cars. These included things like the roof vents and stove stacks.

The plywood floor boards with center sills and coupler pockets had already been cut, painted on the underside and had the center sills bolted in place. All these car floors needed were a car to go on top.

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Note: should be obvious which were the shorty floors and which would be Dave's CP passenger car floors. At that time, was able to "sell" Dave on the idea to let me build the shorties first to figure out where construction errors might pop up and avoid those when I got around to his cars. Dave liked that idea. Did that idea work? Sometimes yes...sometimes no. As construction progressed, there were new challenges.

Next time, we'll show the basic car construction, but won't go into as much detail as I explained for the shorties. So, hang on...here we go again!
Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
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Re: A Couple More

Post by ccvstmr »

LET'S GET STARTED (again)

CHANGE #1- The wall height on the shorties was 13". Dave requested the walls for his cars be shortened by 1" to 12" high. The reason for this was simple...didn't want the cars to be much taller than the locomotive. Still, had to ensure enough car height to fit a 20# horizontal propane cylinder inside the car. As a result of this seemingly small change, the wall height had a ripple affect and impacted the roof ribs across the tank area as well as the end doors and baggage doors.

As noted, the plywood floors had already been prepared. Center sill materials had been welded and attached to the floor board along the center line of the floor using carriage bolts. Holes had been drilled in the floor board to clear the 1/2" king pin nuts and a drive socket. It was time to start assembling the walls.

Wall frames were made with 1/2" W x 3/4" H poplar. Took a piece of 3/4" thick poplar and sliced off a piece approx. 2.5" wide. This would be used to make the wall headers and footers. Locations for the uprights were marked along one edge. Changed the saw table blade to a dado (wobble) blade. This blade is cocked between (2) tapered spacers. The more the blade is cocked, the wider the cut.

An alternative is a set of individual dado blades where the width is built up with multiple blade inserts. Or, if your gutsy enough, use a regular saw blade and index the wood the width of the blade to carve your slot. Used a marker to draw a series of index lines across the board. When the frames are glued, want all the index marks at the same end. This ensure the top and bottom dado cuts are aligned.

The dado was cut across the entire board. After all the dado cuts were made, changed saw blade back and sliced the dado'ed boards into 1/2" thick strips for the headers and footers for the side and end walls.

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With all the wall components cut (for both the baggage and coach cars), drywall screw clearance holes were drilled in the center of each dado cut. Screw holes were countersunk opposite the dado cuts. Wall frame members for one section were glued and clamped on the assembly table that still had a right angle wall guides...AND...minding the index marks on the boards. Here's a coach wall frame on the table.

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After an hour, the clamps came off. A smaller drill bit was used to drill into the vertical wall members. Drywall screws were driven down. Soon enough, (4) side walls and (4) end walls had been made and set aside for both baggage and coach cars. In the next photo, the coach side wall frames are standing on end on the left. The baggage car side wall frames are on the right. How do I know? Vertical members on the baggage car walls were offset for the center door and the side windows.

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Time to erect the walls. All adjoining surfaces were glued and clamped. Since the floor board was only 1/2" thick plywood, screw holes to hold the walls came up from the underside. Holes were drilled and countersunk for more drywall screws. Made sure the walls were square to the floor board. Was important to make sure the side walls were parallel and not bowed in or out in the center of the car.

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With the wall frames glued 'n screwed, was time to "skin" the walls. Once again, used 1/4" under layment plywood (really ~ .200" thick). Had Lowes slice a 4x8 sheet of plywood in slightly oversized widths. Have room in the shop to trim pieces, but handling a 4x8 sheet would be extremely difficult with all the stuff in the shop.

After the side and end wall plywood pieces were cut to size, small blocks of wood were clamped to the underside of all 4 car corners. Plywood wall pieces were NO LONGER than the wall frame sections. Perhaps you're thinking...what about the corners? Corner trim will be made to sit in the corner and fill that void.

Starting with the side walls, a plywood section was set on the corner blocks, aligned and clamped in place. Used the wall frame to trace the outline of the wall frame members on the inside of the plywood. Then, the clamp was removed and the plywood moved to the opposite side of the car. Once again, the wall frame members were traced on the OUTSIDE of the plywood. This way, knew where to apply glue for the inside and when set against the wall frame and clamped in place, knew where to drive nails on the outside. Can do this as long as both side frame sections are identical. Same procedure was used for the end wall sections. In the next photo, you can see the wall frame member tracing.

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Next time, we'll start the exterior planking. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: A Couple More

Post by ccvstmr »

A PLANKIN' WE WILL GO

With the car frame erected and skinned with plywood, it was time to start the planking process. Decided this time to NOT plank the entire sides and ends like the shorties. Instead, would locate windows and door openings and plank the cars just over the perimeter of those openings. The idea was to save some planking material. Might not have saved much on the baggage car, but the coach would have (2) end doors and (26) windows. Roughly speaking, there's 160" of wall surface to cover. At (2) planks per inch, that's 320 planks. And with the 12" high walls...the means approx. 320 feet of plank material would be needed (plus a little extra). Any plank savings would help stretch the material.

Planks were made by slicing 1/2" thick poplar boards slightly over 4 feet in length. Used a 7.25" diameter carbide blade on a 10" table saw. The smaller blade makes a narrower cut. In short, less sawdust/waste. 1/2" wide planks scale out to a 4" scale width. Strips were cut approx. to .270" to .280" thickness. The planks were passed thru a surface planer to a finished thickness of .240" to .250". Don't have a surface planer? Can prepare the planks, glue them to the car sides and then go over the sides/ends with a belt sander to remove the saw blade marks. Used this method long before I had a surface planer for early an early box car, reefer and caboose.

After the plank strips came thru the planer with one smoothed side, they were passed by a router with a 60 degree carbide cutter. The router was outfitted with several finger boards to hold the plank down to the router table and against the router table fence. Else, an uneven bevel is produced. This operation works best with (2) persons...one pushing the stock into the router and one pulling the edge beveled plank out. The strip was flipped around and run by the router for the other beveled edge. Here's what the router set up looks like.

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After all the planks had been beveled, had a nice stack of plank material to start covering the car body.

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Used the same method to install the planks as described in the Couple of Shorties build series. Drew vertical lines on the side of the car every 6-10" to use as reference marks to keep the planks vertical. Planks were pre-drilled about 1" from the bottom and 1.5" from the top. Pre-drilling the nail holes avoids spitting the wood. The distances noted would put the 1/2" long nails thru the plank, plywood and into the interior wall frame members.

After spreading glue on the plywood, the 1st end plank was set in place and nailed. Several more planks were then set in the glue being careful NOT to squeeze glue up between the planks. The planks would then be pulled against the end plank and the nails in the last plank driven down, but not driven all the way. Would check to make sure the distance across the top of the planks and bottom of the planks was nearly the same and reference lines distance to the last plank were also near identical. The rest of the nails would be driving down. Word of caution...while driving nails...try not to "ding" the wood.

Where the windows or doors were located, planks were set to cover over the outer perimeter of each opening. When planking was completed, here is what the car side looked like...

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At this point, the perimeter of the opening drawn on the car surface was no longer important. What was crucial was to establish the vertical center lines of each window opening. Would use that center to align the window cut out template. The template had a reference stop that would be pushed against the smoothed upper edge of the planks. Line up the template center and clamp the template in place. Used the Harbor Freight multi-function tool with a cutting blade to cut thru the planks and plywood for each side of the window. The cut-out template was .010" to .015" larger on each side than the windows to insure an easy fit while allowing some vertical and horizontal window alignment.

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Here's what a few of the window cut-outs looked like after they "fell thru" during the cutting process.

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After all the window cut-outs have been removed, here's what was left.

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Might have noticed in the last photo, the car ends had NOT been planked yet. There was a disagreement about baggage cars having end windows. Had never heard of that. Later on, when I had a copy of the original Model Railroader article, the baggage car DID indeed have end windows. BUT...the coach did not. This seemed totally backwards. Convinced Honest Dave...to leave the end windows out of the baggage car and put a couple end windows in the coach. And so, that's the way we proceeded.

Readers might have also noticed a cross brace near the center of the car. This was made with a piece of 3/4" x 2" pine and installed before the planking with glue and 2" or 2.5" long drywall screws. And yes, those screws will never see daylight ever again. The brace is used to prevent the car sides from bowing...in or out. Can also be used as a lifting point. Since these cars had 68" long side walls, figured any extra support along the length of the car would be prudent. For the baggage car, that cross brace was installed off-center to provide as much hand/arm space to install/remove a propane cylinder.

Next time, will start trimming out the corners, top edges and more. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
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Re: A Couple More

Post by ccvstmr »

WINDOW CUT-OUT TEMPLATE

Sorry, going to side track here for a moment. Received an inquiry from a Chaski contributor asking about the window cut out templates.

When the shorties were built, a window cut out template was made using a piece of 1/8" thick alum sheet that was readily available. Could have used steel (maybe something a little thinner), or brass...but that would have been a costly template. With the shorties, there was a natural straight edge that ran across the length of the car...the signboard. Because of the way the car was assembled, the sign board stuck out 1/8" farther than the planked sides. Scribed center lines on the template were aligned with the center lines drawn on the car. The template was clamped. And the vibrating cutter was worked across each edge of the template until the saw cut thru the plywood skin. The process was repeated until all (4) sides of the window opening were cut and the cut out fell thru. Here's a photo of the shorty coach with the Harbor Freight multi-function tool and a square end cutting blade.

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Should be noted, the vibrating action of this cutter WILL hammer the corners of the template and raise a burr. When templates are made, it's not really necessary to file the corners square. After several window openings are cut, might want to go back with a file to remove the burr on the front and back sides of the template.

Here is the template used for the shorties. Can see where the corners of the opening have been battered and worn. The height of the template opening was 1/8" more than the height of the window frame. Why? Because I knew in advance, there would be a 1/8" thick piece of poplar used for the window sill. When the window frames were installed, they would set down directly on the window sill. Notice too, the center line scribe marks for alignment.

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Next view shows the back side of (2) leftover side window frames. On the left, can see the .060" deep recess for a piece of plexiglass glazing. On the right, can see a cut piece of plexi set in the recess (with the protective plastic film intact). The frame around the window face casting was .187" wide. Most of the windows used for these passenger cars were done this way to provide enough shoulder for mounting the window frame with contact cement AND to hide any excessive cut out deviations. Like building a house, there's plenty of opportunities to hide flaws.

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The same concept was used when the clerestory windows were designed. A wide-r frame around the window for mounting and a recess on the back side to set the plexiglass into. Here's a couple of the rejected clerestory window castings for purposes of this discussion.

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With my guidance, Dave made a similar 1/8" aluminum window cut out templates for his baggage and coach cars. Without a sign board, Dave used a piece of aluminum angle screwed to the top of the template. The window cut out opening was based on the drop down distance from the top of the walls and that alum angle reference. Was important the cut out was as square as possible to the angle reference edge.

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Here's another view of Dave's window cut out template showing the reference angle against the stop side edge of the car wall.

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Hope that provided a little more insight into the making and use of the window cut out templates. Three different templates were needed to make the 60+ window openings for the (4) cars (not including the clerestory windows on the shorties). Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: A Couple More

Post by ccvstmr »

Roof - Part 1

Sorry guys, thought I'd start discussing the baggage car trim, but it's hard to trim something that doesn't exist (somewhat). Instead, going to go back and pick up the construction of the roof. While there may be more material needed to build the car body, more thought went into the design and fabrication of the roof. Usually, I build "lift off" roofs. This allows full access to the car interior no matter which side of the car you're standing on. Makes it easier to work on the underside of the car (if needed) without an attached roof.

To start with, Honest Dave wanted a round top/wagon roof for his passenger cars. A clerestory roof was too modern for the period cars he was trying to recreate. Fine by me...a round top roof was faster to build.

The roofs were designed to "fit down" into the top of the car sides and ends. This is one reason why the wall frames are shorter than car sides and ends. The side roof "rails" would extend all the way from end to end of the roof to make the roof a solid structure. The roof spine would stop at the end wall. Didn't want that piece of wood work to obstruct the underside of the roof plywood.

Started cutting a couple lengths of 1/2" thick poplar to make (2) sets of roof rails and spines: (1) for the baggage car and (1) for the coach. Similar to the side/end wall frames, made dado cuts across these board for the roof ribs. Thereafter, would rip those boards lengthwise

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The boards were then ripped lengthwise to make (2) vertical roof rails and (1) horizontal center spine (after placing an index mark on the boards so they always stayed in the same orientation). Made the spine wider this time because of the thin center rib section.

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Decided to use 1/2" plywood to make the roof ribs. Would double up the end ribs and the ribs that spanned the propane fuel cylinder. The ribs were glued 'n screwed as needed. Located the screws where they wouldn't interfere with the rib cutting until the very end. You can see in the foreground one of the ribs that would span the horizontal propane cylinder. That top section would be thin...but you'll see in a bit, that section was going to get THINNER while fitting the tank under the roof. The arc across the top was something like 31" radius.

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As long as the ribs were still "square", was easy to run the ribs over the table saw and remove the wood for the spine. Then, pass the ribs thru a band saw to cut the arc...and finish the arc using a belt sander. The lower corners were removed for the longitudinal roof rails. The ribs still extended farther to cover the car body walls.

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The end walls needed to be notched so the roof rails could extend over the end platform and corner steps. Allowed enough clearance for a little side to side movement of the roof with respect to the car body. Pulled out the multi-function tool to slice the end wall sections, remove as much end wall as possible and then clean up the notch with a coping saw or file.

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In the next photo, was doing a "dry fit" of the roof rails and ribs. Can see where the center spine has been shortened to fit from end rib to end rib only. You might also notice a strip of 1/4" plywood running under the ends of the roof ribs. This acts to "close up" the car body to keep bugs and critters out. Eventually, 1/8" thick closed foam strips would be contact cemented to the underside of the plywood. This, to "cushion" the roof sitting on top of the car and prevent wood-on-wood scratching (there's enough other ways to scratch the paint finish).

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But wait...there's more roof construction to review. Don't get off the train yet. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: A Couple More

Post by ccvstmr »

Roof - Part 2

Continuing with the roof construction, hobby craft multi-ply plywood was used to create the roof end arches. Since these passenger cars were over 12" wide, had to use a 12" x 24" piece of hobby craft ply to make the roof end arches. Already knew the radius for the top arch. These would be approx. 3/4" high total. The arches were cut to 16" long, knowing full well these would eventually be shortened and cut to fit on the top of the roof rails. A center line was used to maintain at least one reference point. Will get back to the installation of these soon enough.

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Back on the roof, plywood scraps were glued to the outer edge of the plywood "seat" at the request of Dave. The reason for this is simple. The roof comes down to the side edges on an angle. With the taper plywood scraps, there was more surface area to glue the roof down as opposed to a glued plywood edge. Made the tapers by running these plywood scraps by the belt sander. And yes, still have all my fingers.

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With the thinning of the roof ribs over the fuel cylinder, decided to install (2) more shorter roof rails off center. Wanted something that would help tie this end of the roof together and hopefully provide some extra strength. Keep in mind, the roof structure hadn't been glued 'n screwed together just yet.

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Was a good thing I stopped with the roof construction until I had one of Dave's propane bottles. Didn't take long to realize...both the safety "cage" around the valve and the handle at the other end of the tank...created interference points. You can imagine I had a few choices words at that point. All this, because the car sides were reduced from 13" to 12" high. And...the top of these ribs kept getting thinner and thinner.

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At the other end of the tank, found the handle stuck up beyond the outline of the tank. Not only that, the handle was not located on the center line of the tank. Poor tank quality control. Arghhhh! The fix...mark the problem location on the spine and run the spine over the table saw crosswise. In short, use the table saw like a horizontal milling machine. This made rounded ends of the cuts.

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And then, realized the tank could be shifted fore/aft in the baggage compartment. The safety "cage" needed MORE clearance. So that rib came out and more wood was removed from the rib. Plywood left at the top of the hollow was approx. 3/16" thick. Yes...the roof rib was "spongy". Not good!

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Stay tuned, there's still more roof work ahead. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: A Couple More

Post by ccvstmr »

Roof - Part 3

Last time, had just finished hollowing out the roof ribs over the propane cylinder for the last time. There really wasn't much left that could be removed. In the next photo, you can see how the tank handle was welded in place off center by the cylinder manufacturer.

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The end arches that were shown in the last section, were trimmed, notched to fit over the roof rail extensions, glued and then drilled some pilot holes to drive in a couple long finishing nails. Don't like to rely on the integrity of a glued joint. Figured glue AND some mechanical fasteners would provide the best strength.

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Before going farther, it was time to shape and install the roof end corner trim. These were somewhat patterned after the same trim on Oakley's Little Central passenger cars. The trim pieces made from 1/2" poplar and needed to be high enough to "hide" the roof rail extending thru the end of the car wall. Had to allow clearance for longitudinal movement of the roof. As such, there would have to be a small gap. Started by determining dimensions and curvature.

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The inside radius was made by using a drum sander in the drill press and moving the corner trim piece back and forth as the guide was moved closer to the spinning drum. As you can see, this creates a pile of fine poplar sawdust.

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The outside radius at the end of the trim was rounded using a belt sander. Made enough trim pieces for both the baggage and coach cars. These trim pieces would be glued to the sides of the roof rails and receive a couple finishing nails to hold in place.

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NOW...it was time to start the final roof structure assembly. Out came the glue bottle, pilot drill, counter bore drill and a supply of drywall screws.

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Next time, we'll get some skin on the roof. btw...you're welcome to ask questions as the assembly documentation moves along. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: A Couple More

Post by ccvstmr »

Roof - Part 4

Have some clear coat drying/curing in the shop. Good time to enter another post for the Central Pacific passenger cars.

Next step in the roof construction was to cut the roof plywood skin (.200" thick underlayment) slightly larger than the perimeter of the roof frame. Then, starting near the center of the plywood, would run the roof skin over the table saw against the fence and cut an approx. 0.100" deep slot. Half the thickness of the plywood. Then, turn the roof side to side and without moving the fence, run the plywood over the blade once more. After that, set the fence out another 3/4" and repeat until the entire underside of the roof skin was scored.

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What comes next? Glue and clamp the plywood skin to the roof frame...scored side down. With all clamps on deck, once the roof skin was secured, short brad nails could be hammered in to secure the skin. Later on, the nail heads would be set. A dot of Superglue applied to avoid "nail pops" and then the pock marks were filled with wood putty and sanded.

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How did this look from the inside? Doesn't really matter, but stuck the camera in the end door and snapped a pix anyway.

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After the glue has dried and the clamps removed, excess plywood around the perimeter of the roof frame was removed with a handheld belt sander. Need to insure the sander is held as vertically as possible. The sanded edges would soon receive the fascia trim that surrounds the roof. On the ends, the 1/8" x 5/8" high trim was cut at regular spaced intervals to match the curvature of the roof. If this is done carefully enough, it's not necessary to soak the trim in hot water.

Nail holes are pre-drilled. Nails inserted in the holes. Glue is applied to the back of the fascia and then starting in the middle, the center nails are nailed partway. Then, the end of the plank is pulled down and the next nail driven part way, etc. When the curved fascia trim is satisfactory, the nails are driven home and allowed to dry. Later on, nail heads are set. Dot of Superglue is applied to the head. Some light sanding. Wood putty was used to fill the slits. Sanded again. And the fascia trim was complete. Once the end fascia was finished, then the side fascia trim goes on. This way, the side trim laps the end cut for the end trim (even though this eventually gets covered).

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Turning the roof upside, here's how the underside of the roof looked. While the roof was upside down, wood blocks were glued 'n screwed into the appropriate corners where the pot belly stove WOULD be located...if the car was so equipped.

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Honest Dave requested the interior of the car be painted an Espresso brown. The same for the underside of the roof. The area over the platforms and down the sides of the roof would be painted satin black. There is a shallow channel that runs along the sides of the roof. This the location where the 1/8" thick foam rubber cushion would be contact cemented in place.

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Next post, we'll finish the roof. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
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Dick_Morris
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Re: A Couple More

Post by Dick_Morris »

I'm enjoying the series. I don't know it I'll ever get time to build passenger cars, but it gives me lots of ideas.
Nail holes are pre-drilled. Nails inserted in the holes.
Have you tried a pneumatic pin nailer for places where a lot of small nails are required to hold parts until the glue has set?
ccvstmr
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Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
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Re: A Couple More

Post by ccvstmr »

Roof - Part 5

Okay, time to bring the roof to it's ultimate conclusion. With all the wood work completed on the roof, a center line was drawn down the entire length of the roof. Cross lines were drawn for the pair of roof vents. There would be (3) pairs of roof vents for the baggage car. Have a drilling block to use with appropriate center lines. Line this up with each pair of roof vent locations and holes drilled for a 10-24 clearance hole.

Smoke stack holes were located at opposite corners of the roof. Since 1/2" copper pipe was used to make the stack heads, needed a 5/8" hole. Set the roof on the drill press with a stand alongside. This ensured the hole would be square. Drilled a 3/16" pilot hole. This would give the 5/8" paddle/spade bit a path to follow. Will get back to these details in a moment.

At this time, the shop fan was turned on and the heat activated SIGS Stix-It was applied to the roof fascia trim (2 times) and one good coat across the roof top using a foam brush. No sense wasting a good bristle brush for this step. When done with the Stix-It, the brush would get wrapped in a plastic bag and tossed in the garbage.

Honest Dave requested the denim roof treatment be applied as one piece...instead of the multiple pieces as used on the shorties. Had my wife assist with the denim preparation (helps to have a seamstress in the household). The denim was cut oversized. Excess will be trimmed off later with a scissors. Before heading to the shop, flipped the underside of the denim right side up and drew center lines on the last 6" of the denim piece. Yes, there are different textures on both sides of the denim.

Down in the shop, spread the denim over the roof with the pencil center lines now facing down. Match the denim center line with the roof center line. Made sure there was ample material over hanging all 4 sides. While my wife held one end..."tacked" that end with the shop iron. When the center was sufficiently anchored, worked my way down the end of the car to the sides. Wife went to the other end of the car to pull the denim flat. Worked my way down the roof ridge with the iron and eventually, worked from the ridge down to the sides. This is not a quick process. Need to allow enough time for the iron heat and soften the adhesive so it can grab the denim. Then let everything cool.

When the roof top denim was ironed in place, the corners were cut and went around the perimeter with the iron to adhere the denim over the fascia trim. Find a place where the denim edge is not "stuck"? Put some more heat to it. When this step was completed, the roof looked like this...

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With all the denim heating done, went around the perimeter to trim off the excess. A good, sharp scissors really helps here. This is pretty much an inch by inch process. And it may take several laps around to adequately trim off any excess denim. If you find an edge that's not sufficiently stuck, there are adhesives that can be used to secure the denim: fabric glues or can even use Superglue.

Now the roof painting starts. First 2 coats or brush on paint. Satin black in this case. When that has sufficiently dried, can now apply a couple coats of spray enamel...satin black. All this paint is used to "tone down" the fabric texture...but leave enough so it looks like a tar paper roof.

Holes previously drilled in the roof for the vents and stacks are now opened. A screw and washer from the underside hold the roof vents in place. The roof vents double has grab holds to lift the roof. After determining the stacks would stick up 2.5" from the roof surface, a cross hole was drilled in the stack mounting block and the stack base. A long drywall screw secures the stack.

After the details are installed, went around the perimeter of the roof to trim off any denim fibers that were still hanging on. Then, one last satin black spray application is made that now includes the vents and stacks. Here's the result...

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The roof is set aside for now so work can continue on the car body. That's where we'll pick it up next time. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: A Couple More

Post by ccvstmr »

Dick_Morris wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:30 pm I'm enjoying the series. I don't know it I'll ever get time to build passenger cars, but it gives me lots of ideas.
Nail holes are pre-drilled. Nails inserted in the holes.
Have you tried a pneumatic pin nailer for places where a lot of small nails are required to hold parts until the glue has set?
Sorry Dick, missed your question. Have had other people ask about using pneumatic pin nailers. Not sure how to answer that. Have several reasons why I prefer my method, such as: pin nailers (that I know of) leave a larger hole that needs to be plugged, sometimes more difficult to control, not sure the pin nailer would work if there's no hole to cut the wood fibers/grain and therefore split the planks, if the nail isn't set completely - they don't come out (or go in) easily. Maybe the best answer I can offer, sometimes just feel like hitting the carp out of something! Even if they're just a bunch of 1/2" x 20 gauge nails. And with these cars, there was more than enough opportunity for that.

Not sure I answered your question other than to rationalize what I do. How's that? Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: A Couple More

Post by ccvstmr »

Splash of Color

With the roof completed, time to review the car body finishing process. This is a multi-step process. Intended to last a long time and not wrinkle or chip. As with most things, a good paint finish starts with what goes on BEFORE the paint.

Will take care of the car interior first. Dave requested the inside be painted with Rustoleum Espresso Brown. The idea was to have the interior look somewhat like a wooden car interior. The interior was painted by brush...2X. The raw wood sucks up the paint quickly. By comparison, the 2nd coat goes on much faster and doesn't need as much paint.

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After the interior paint was dry, the outside of the car is masked since the 1st application of brush-on primer does get messy. All of the door and window openings were covered from the inside using cardboard.

This step uses a Rustoleum brush on rusty metal primer. As noted in the Couple of Shorties write up, the use of this primer had nothing to do with rusty metal. Preferred to use a dark-er primer under the following steps. Besides, white primer is wicked to cover in one application. To get the primer to sufficiently cover the grooves, found myself many times pushing the brush, which is opposite to normal brush use to force the bristles into the grooves.

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When dry, it's time to sand the planks surfaces. This is done to remove excess primer on the surface. For this, used a sanding sponge. Found that an angle sponge works great to clean the plank grooves. Yes, it takes a while to do each of the grooves individually, but as note by another Chaski contributor, it's the end result we're trying to achieve. Sometimes, that takes a little more elbow grease along the way. Next photo shows the start of the sanding process. Sanded planks are on the left...untouched primed planks to the right.

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What's next? Something that's easy to apply. Rustoleum flat black spray primer. If you're looking to model a black car for a funeral train, this step might be followed by a gloss or satin clear coat. But why the black primer? In my opinion, the black undercoat makes the final color more vivid. You may be thinking the final color goes on solid. True, but I believe what's underneath affects the resulting final paint color.

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At this point, it's time to install the cast the resin windows. The baggage car would get double hung windows, (12) total cast polyurethane frames for this car. Window frames would be affixed to the car using contact cement. When all the window openings were filled, NOW the car is starting to look like something. Don't recall if the inside of the window frames were painted with the dark brown paint to blend in with the interior car color.

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And now, the final paint is applied. Sorry, the lighting and digital camera DO NOT do the color justice. This was a "standard" Rustoleum Burgundy red. Dave wanted an exterior color that was darker than a normal red and certainly not pink or purple. These "standard" paints typically take longer to dry than the Painter's Touch line. The shop floor was covered with plastic to try and catch most of the paint mist. Ended up spreading saw dust on the plastic to keep my shoes from sticking. As you can see in the photo, there's red paint all over the masking.

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The car sides got (2) applications of spray paint to insure both sides of the groove are adequately covered without getting too much paint on the cast window frames. Past experience proved excess paint on the window frames resulted in paint wrinkles. NOT GOOD! So, was careful this time to not load the frames with too much spray paint and at the same time, avoid paint runs.

Another Chaski reader pointed out if the spray can is heated up, this will increase the spray pressure and produce finer paint droplets. Okay, I used the 300 watt shop light to heat the cans to, oh, 100 degrees. And yes, better paint distribution (read atomization) was achieved.

With the bulk of the painting completed, hope to get to the doors next time. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
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