A Couple More

Where users can chronicle their builds. Start one thread and continue to add on to it.

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Dick_Morris
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Re: A Couple More

Post by Dick_Morris »

That answered my question. Thanks.
ccvstmr
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Re: A Couple More

Post by ccvstmr »

Dick_Morris wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:13 pm That answered my question. Thanks.
Dick, can only add, if I get to a 3rd shorty, might try using the pin nailer idea to see what happens. Should know quickly if that's going to work out. Will add...when using a pneumatic nail gun...need to be sure the nails are located to line up with the wall frames on the inside. That wall section is not quite 1". Can use 3/4" or 7/8" nails (if they're available). The plank and plywood underlayment are only .440" thick. Don't think anyone makes pneumatic nails that short. Last thing you want to do is grind off the nail points inside of the car body. Thanks for pointing this out. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
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Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: A Couple More

Post by ccvstmr »

Doors & Windows - Part 1

Depending on the type of freight car being built, there's lots of opportunities to add "gingerbread" to the sides and/or ends. Brake wheels, platforms, chains 'n cranks, there's grab irons scattered around, door details and when the hardware is attached and the car painted...then the graphics go on including the car dimensional details, car lading code, build date, and more. However, with the passenger cars, once you get past the end platform railings, the cars are relatively "plain". There's not much else to look at other than door and window details.

As stated at the start of this series, Honest Dave wanted his car walls to be 12" high. The 1st problem that change created compared to the shorties was the roof and insuring the propane fuel tank would fit inside the car. The 2nd problem created by that change was the baggage and end doors. How so? On the shorties, the cars were built so the doors were installed from the INSIDE of the car. Wood cleats held the aluminum machined door panels in place. As such, the door trim was installed from the OUTSIDE and was used as a door stop.

On Dave's cars, the doors were basically the same size as the shorties to preserve scale appearance. There would be wall framing inside the car body that prevented installing the doors from the inside. The only option remaining was to install the doors from the outside and use the door trim to hold the doors in place against the wall framing. Egads...another situation where I had to take 3 steps back to go 4 steps forward. In the next few construction parts, will focus on the door installations and how I got around the door mounting problem.

To start, I'll post some photos of Oakley Little's, Little Central passenger cars to show aspects that would be captured and used for Dave's Central Pacific cars. Note the cove cut wood trim around both the end and baggage doors...

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Looking at the car side that had already been planked, realized planks on both the sides of the doorways would have to be removed to make way for the door trim. The plywood underlayment behind the planks was cut out as well. That Harbor Freight multi-function vibrating tool with the saw blade proved its value once again.

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After the needed planks were removed, filled in the short plank gaps at the top and bottom of the door opening. Knew the bottom row of short planks would be covered over with an aluminum machined door threshold. You can see the wall framing was now exposed as well.

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Similarly, the end door openings had to be opened for the door plus the trim at the top and both sides. As soon as the planks and plywood skin were removed, daylight could be seen around perimeter.

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Knew if the door trim was going to be nailed from the outside, had to make sure there was something to nail into. Cut several 1/2" square strips of poplar to glue alongside the end wall door frames.

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Next time, instead of tearing things apart, we'll start building things back up. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
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Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: A Couple More

Post by ccvstmr »

Doors & Windows - Part 2

Realized for the end doors, there would be a partial plank outside the door trim. A full plank was installed in the space created. The door plus trim width drawn on the end of the car and a steel plate was clamped to the wall. After making a short later cut (carefully) with the multi-function tool, used the vertical steel edge as a guide to remove plank material not needed.

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After the material was removed for the door trim, here's the end door opening.

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And here's the baggage door opening (keep in mind, whatever was done on one side for either type of door, had to be done on the opposite side).

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Honest Dave had already machined the door panels per the CAD drawings generated. Now we get an idea how the baggage door would look in its opening before the trim was installed.

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Similar view for the end door.

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Meanwhile, over in the "door department", Dave decided to add a "twist" to the car end doors. For the baggage car, the end doors would have (1) large lower wood scribed panel and (2) upper upper "window" openings. However, instead of using glazing in the upper parts of the end doors, perforated metal screen would be used for ventilation purposes. For the coach car, Dave wanted the end door flipped. The baggage doors were machined to look like (4) wood panels on the bottom and (4) windows on the top.

Here's all the doors for both baggage and coach cars as the perforated screen and wood panels were being fit. Holes for door knobs had already been drilled. Escutcheon pins would be Superglued from the back side of the doors and the excess pin removed with a Dremel tool. The baggage doors were drilled/tapped for #2 brass hex head screws.

IMG_3279.JPG

Next time, we'll get the door trim cut and prepared. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: A Couple More

Post by ccvstmr »

Doors & Windows - Part 3

Since the last entry, the (2) baggage doors and (2) end doors were readied for installation...whenever the door trim gets completed. The baggage doors received 1/16" thick plexiglass on top that was contact cemented into the recess on the back side of the alum machined door. 1/16" scribed wood panels were cut and fit for their respective back side recesses and those were attached too with contact cement.

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As previously described, would use the door trim on the outside to hold the doors in place. Similar to Oakley Little's, Little Central cars, the door trim was approx. 1/16" wider/higher than the wall thickness. So, the door trim would stand out by that amount. Poplar wood stock was cut for all the doors and planed to final dimension. For all the doors, the top "arch" was hollowed out with a band saw and then a 1" drum sander in the drill press was used to sand the arch for the final fit. That fit was the arch ends would be no wider or narrower than the vertical side door trim pieces.

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The (3) door trim pieces were cut to fit the opening and then glued and nailed. The side trim pieces were kept slightly shorter so there was no binding on the baggage door threshold. The same was done at the bottom of the end doors for a door threshold. To join the arch and side vertical door trim, nails were kept to the inside of the door trim so it wouldn't be seen when viewing the car from the sides. The door frames were positioned in the door trim fixture with an 1/8" spacer under the 3 sides of the door trim. A hand trimmer (smaller version of a router) was used with a 1/2" carbide cove cutter. The trimmer was slid along the top of the poplar door trim material and rests on one of several inside spacers to keep the trimmer square. A small ball bearing at the time of the cutter was used to follow the door trim contour.

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Dave had requested the cove cuts be run all the way to the bottom of the door vertical pieces. This was a slight deviation from what Oakley had done. After the cove cut had been completed, the door trim piece went back on the car with the baggage door for a look-see. There's a small piece of strip wood at the bottom of the door to hold the (2) sides of the door in position.

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Now, readers might have noticed the door openings were cleared all the way back to the wall frames and larger than the doors. To fill that void on the sides and tops of the doors and provide a reasonable surface to mount the door trim on, took 1/8" hobby craft plywood and cut strips to fit the sides and top of all the doors. This in essence "framed" the doors. Will borrow a photo from the coach construction. This shows the end door with the filler pieces in place. Eventually, all the filler pieces are covered over by the door trim.

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From this point, the door trim assemblies were primed and painted. Pilot holes were drilled in the door side trim pieces for mounting. And that's were we'll pick up next time. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: A Couple More

Post by ccvstmr »

Doors & Windows - Part 4

The door trim assemblies were sprayed with black flat primer like the car sides. When dry, all the door trim assemblies were sprayed with Rustoleum satin Espresso Brown...similar to the brush on paint used to cover the car interior.

Door trim assemblies were installed in their respective openings (yes, there were minor dimensional differences between pairs of baggage and end doors). Door trim was pushed "up" in the opening and the fastening nails driven home. The door trim assemblies were masked inside and out. Nails were set and superglued as most other nails heads had been treated. The holes were filled with putty. And when dry, the excess putty was removed by lightly sanding.

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Additional masking was taped in place and then the door trim received one or two more coats of spray paint.

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When the masking was removed and the baggage door grab iron added...this is what made all the work worth the effort. The brass hex head lag screws would eventually be touched up with satin black paint.

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The end doors, received a door knob. These were from the doll house department at Hobby Lobby. While they are most likely 1" scale, they seemed fitting for this application. The door knobs were held in place with an escutcheon pin that was superglued from the back side.

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Shifting gears, 1/16" plexiglass pieces were cut for all the double hung windows. The plexiglass is scribed with a shop knife (sometimes as many 10 times) and then "broken" over a sharp edge. If you're starting with a large piece of plexiglass material, might want to get another pair of hands to assist. Once the plexi material is "cut" into strips, one person can then continue to cut the window panes by himself.

Cutting the plexiglass in this manner leaves a burr on the edge. This can be scrapped away with the shop knife. Because of the way the recess was machined on the back side of the window pattern and replicated with all the window casting, the plexiglass windows corners can be nipped off.

Window retainers were fabricated using 1/8" thick poplar strips. The extension that actually holds the plexiglass in the window casting recess can be made using poplar or even basswood. The retainer pieces are glued and clamped.

IMG_3369.JPG

After the glue had dried, the window retainers were painted. When the paint was dry, the car was set over on it's side (on a soft carpet square). The protective film was removed from both sides of the plexiglass. The window glazing was set in the window frame recess and the retainers set in place with glue. When the glue had dried, the car was flipped over an the process repeated on the opposite side. Here's the result of the window retainer installation.

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Told Dave from the start, I wasn't going to frame the windows completely on the inside. Didn't do this on the shorties either. Life is already short. The extra interior window trim was something that's not readily visible. Therefore, only needed retainers at the top and bottom to hold the plexiglass glazing in place...and move on.

That's it for the door and window trimming. We'll keep going with other facets of the baggage car construction next time. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
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Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: A Couple More

Post by ccvstmr »

Details

End Wall: one of the car body aspects omitted during the car assembly was...when the roof was fit on the car, there was a gap between the roof underside and the top of the end wall. Yes, the arc on the end wall was correct, but it wasn't high enough.

IMG_3247.JPG

The solution...add a filler piece and trim it out to make it look like the alum angle trim that runs along the top edge of the side wall. Pulled out the 1/2" hobby craft plywood used to make the roof end arches and cut another arc. Fitted the arc with a belt sander even though you wouldn't see this from the outside...but you could see any misfit from the inside.

Sanded the face of these plywood arcs since all the walls were nominally .440" thick (.200" underlayment plywood + .240" thick planks). Pulled out the sheet of 1/8" hobby craft plywood and cut another arc slightly wider/higher than the 1/2" thick arc. Once the edges were sanded, holes were drill for every other plank. The trim piece was glued in place and escutcheon pins (5/8" pins shortened to 1/2") were inserted. When glued to the end wall, a few finishing nails driving down from the top (in pre-drilled holes) to secure. Did I say I forgot something? This was the end result...

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Queen posts, Truss Rods and Turnbuckles: with the longer car, the queen posts were taller. When Honest Dave was turning queen posts for the shorties, gave him the dimensions to make (8) queen posts for his cars.

Used white oak for the queen post timbers. Once again, these had to be notched for the center sill. For the baggage car, had to increase that opening to allow for the ventilation screening. The notch for the center sill was opened even wider to provide a space to run the air brake polyurethane tubing. Glue and a couple drywall screws were installed to hold the queen post timber in place. The drywall screws went thru the floor and into the bottom of the wall frames topside.

10-24 studs were used to mount the queen posts. A coarse thread will work better in wood than a fine thread. There was enough "play" in the threads to position the queen post so the half-round slot could be aligned lengthwise to the car.

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Had Dave early on, TIG weld washers to the end of 1/8" steel wire truss rods. This provided an anchor point for the end of the rods as opposed to weaving long lengths of rod under the bolster and out to the end beam. Figured there was already enough hardware on the end beams that this aspect could be "cheated" just a bit.

Found a source of 6-32 turnbuckles on line. Yes, these are threaded with left hand and right hand threads. The truss rod ends were threaded similarly. When you're used to right hand threaded devices, using a left hand tap or die goes contrary to most thinking. Once the rods were bent, set in place and anchored, the excess rod material could be taken up by the turnbuckle. The right hand threaded truss rod got a re-threaded 4-40 square nut to 6-32, to "lock" the turnbuckle in place once the final position was determined. And the net result of this was...

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Dave decided to forego other under body details like air brake reservoir, brake valve and brake cylinder. No problem...we'll move on.

End Handrails: one of the last details of significance were the end platform handrails. Described the making of such details in the shorty passenger car epistle. This time, had to make a new hole locating fixture because of the corner trim. The drilling fixture fit between the corner trim and the side edge of the plywood floor. Decided (this time) to drill the holes for the handrail wires (1/8") before the car was painted. Used a .128" diameter drill. A little extra clearance to insert the ends of the handrail would help after the car was painted.

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As part of the final assembly, once the handrails were inserted, smaller holes were drilled for the #2 brass hex head lag screws. If anyone decides to use this type of fastener...do yourself a favor and get a "good" 1/8" hex driver. Something that won't round out after the first few screws are installed. Later on, the hex heads will get touch up with some black satin paint.

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Next time, the car gets flipped upside-down to install the plumbing (air brake and fuel line). Hang in there, we're almost at the end. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: A Couple More

Post by ccvstmr »

Plumbing

Sorry, not talking about lavatory plumbing. Although I'm sure the original baggage car had a certain receptacle for crew use...even back in the mid 1800's. No, I'm talking about fuel plumbing and air brake plumbing. Let's start with the fuel line.

From the start, Dave wanted to carry his horizontal propane fuel cylinder "enclosed" in the baggage car with some other support equipment. This was the reason for the bottom screen and perforated screens in the end doors. This was the primary reason for hollowing out the roof ribs over the tank compartment.

Having been thru this plumbing exercise with the shorties, already had a good idea hot to arrange the elbows and how much of the back corner step had to be removed to make a nice, neat, compact plumbing installation. Most important, the plumbing had to clear any truck swing. A scrap piece of 1/8" brass plate was soft soldered to the elbow that pops up thru the car floor. The plate would eventually be held in place with (2) 10-32 screws. Eventually, the entire 1/4" npt piping network would be sand blasted and painted satin black.

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Here's another view of the fuel piping before painting. Can also see the (2) Clippard quick connectors in the end beam. The nickel silver QC is the "air reservoir" connection from the compressor module. This line runs under the baggage car and up to the tender where the brake pipe pressure regulator is located. The brass QC is the brake pipe connection for the straight air brakes. In this next view, can also see how the (2) polyurethane tubing lines run along the side of the center sill. The air reservoir line pops up thru the car floor at the car end of the car near the compressor module. Quick tip here...want to make it easier to slip the poly tubing over the brass tubing barbs? Spread a small dab of silicone or Teflon grease on the barb first. Same idea can be used for any hose/tubing to barb connection.

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Provided a 1/4" npt stub up into the cabin with a 90 elbow for a tubing barb.

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Honest Dave had some other ideas how he wanted his fuel hardware arranged and eventually removed that elbow. After the car was delivered to the club track, Dave installed his set up...with a union to disconnect the entire "piping tree" if necessary, a pressure gauge and his primary fuel pressure regulator. From there, he's got his fuel line and fitting that screws directly into the cylinder on/off valve.

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Going to steal a photo from the coach car air brake install again. This photo shows the "T's" installed between the two bolsters and equidistant from the truck bolsters. This way, either truck can be used at either end of the car. The pig tail in the car mounted brake pipe...is purposely kept short so it kind of "snaps back" to the floor if the brakes on either truck for some reason needs to be cut out. Have been using the method for all my cars equipped with brakes for years. Have always believe this method was worth the cost of the extra hardware.

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How does all this get hooked up? Both fuel and air connections are pointed downward at a 45 deg angle and criss-cross under the coupler. This provides plenty of tubing movement without crimping. How do you know what hose goes where? The large-r fuel line is kind of obvious. The 1/4" poly lines for the air brakes...just have to match the quick connector...nickel silver to nickel silver and brass to brass. All tubing connections are long enough they don't accidentally interfere with the coupler bottom side lift pins...but kept short enough to clear the rails with 1" clearance.

IMG_3443.JPG

Next time...we'll wrap up the baggage car construction article. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
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Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: A Couple More

Post by ccvstmr »

Final Preparations

Hang on there, we're almost at the end of the line for the baggage car. Will cover a few last items before the big moment.

When most everything else on the baggage car was done, the end platform wood work would be one of those last items completed. The white oak end platform pieces were cut to fit the corner stair hardware. The inboard and outboard platform boards were notched to fit around the stairway sides that extended slightly above the platform planking. Two beads of glue were spread slightly off center. There was no need to securely glue these pieces in place...in case a corner stair assembly had to be removed. A single nail in the center provided additional fastening. The nails were set and the holes touched up with satin black paint.

The door threshold was also made from white oak. Used a belt sander to shape the beveled face and front corners of the threshold. Yes, I still have my fingertips intact. The threshold too, was nailed, set and the nail hole touched up with paint.

Should be obvious, the next photo was taken before the door trim and end beam assemblies were installed.

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Knew from the start, Dave's battery module and air compressor module would NOT fit inside these cars now with 12" high walls. Therefore, the overall module height had to be something LESS than 12". After deducting the floor thickness and the shorter wall frame height, was looking at modules that would be around 10" high.

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The solution: the air compressor module sides and back could be shortened. The aluminum angle handles could be moved as low as possible. The "control panel" would have to be reconfigured to stay within the shortened envelope. The on/off pressure switch would be left in the center and would/coiuld stick up inside the arched roof. Wiring and pneumatic plumbing could be left intact as well. It was a tight squeeze.

The battery module, there was no way to shorten the module with the 18 amp-hour sealed lead acid battery (SLA). Discussed the situation with Dave and decided to drop down to a 12 ah SLA battery. Would then build a new plywood case to contain the battery, on board battery charge and other electrical controls.

When the module surgery was completed, everything fit snugly inside the limits of the car body.

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Throughout the build, had provided Honest Dave with regular updates on the construction progress. With work on the car mostly completed, it was time for the final decoration...vinyl graphics. Have a friend that has a USData vinyl cutter/plotter that uses the Sure Cuts Alot vinyl cutting software program. Selected a font known as "Country Store". This appeared to be the most old-fashioned font available in the software program font library. The vinyl graphics were cut, weeded and applied. However, Dave would have to wait to see the final product until he was here.

Dave was contacted come over and help carry the car body out of the basement shop. Estimated weight of the car body alone was approx. 60 pounds. That was borderline for bulging lower back disk. Would add, the 68+ " beam to beam length" was about as long as I am tall. At this point, did NOT want to risk damage getting the car up the stairs. By the time Dave arrived, had already carried the roof, the trucks (separately) and couplers to the garage. Had a couple work horses and a quick 'n dirty assembly track set up. Dave liked what he saw!

The final assembly of the baggage car took place in the garage. All the parts 'n pieces would finally meet one another for the first time. Total weight for the assembled car was about 120 pounds. Add to that a loaded 20 pound propane cylinder and (2) modules...and that pushed the car weight up around 190 pounds.

When completed, the baggage car was loaded in the vehicle for the 20 minute trip to the club track. There, it was time for the BIG reveal. We would BOTH get to finally see what Rustoleum Burgundy red paint looked like in daylight! Told Dave, we'd unload the baggage car from my vehicle...and then we'll unload the Disney from his vehicle to couple up in front of the baggage car.

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And here for the first time, the full effect of the CPRR #173 Disney locomotive and baggage car together for the first time...

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Oh yeah...loco and baggage car DID look good together!

Well, this story doesn't end here. With the baggage car "delivered", was time to start the 2nd part of this project...building a coach car to go with the rest of the train.

Have showcased many of the methods, tips, tricks and techniques used to construct both the shorty passenger cars and the Central Pacific baggage car. Don't see a need to cover the step by step assembly process again for the coach. However, will highlight several of the changes made (some at Dave's request) on the coach car. Shouldn't take more than 1 or 2 additional posts.

So, as Johnny Carson used to say...we'll be right back. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
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NP317
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Re: A Couple More

Post by NP317 »

Gorgeous!
RussN
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Harold_V
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Re: A Couple More

Post by Harold_V »

Carl,
Thanks for the great thread. What a masterful job you've done of capturing reality. One can easily mistake the photos as representing a full scale car. Very, very nice. True modeling.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
ccvstmr
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Re: A Couple More

Post by ccvstmr »

Russ and Harold,

Thanks for the kind words. I'm flattered. Appreciate the recognition, but have to admit, while Honest Dave likes to call attention to my cabinetmaking efforts, there are others that could run circles around the work I do. In particular when others build miniature framed windows or caboose car interiors. Now those people do some phenomenal work! I look at the work done by contributors like Jack Bodenmann, Robert Williams and others...and sit in awe as I read the description and examine their finely detailed models.

Realize most persons contributing here are "builders" and versed in metalworking more so than woodworking...in various levels of craftsmanship. I dabble in both, enough so to produce some nice looking models. Have been doing this kind of work for a while and have learned a few things along the way. Borrowed ideas from others too. After all, copying is the sincerest form of flattery.

My intent all along with the passenger car build articles was to show what can be done with mostly basic tools. The surface planer was a greatly addition to the shop (at a bargain price), but that had to be repaired before it would be usable. When building cars (or a loco), you start with a vision, design/sketch the needed parts, fabricate those parts, build up the assembly and in time, you have a finished product. Nobody said the 1st effort out of the box was going to be a masterpiece. I've been at this over 30 years...and there's still techniques to learn.

Believe the important part is...dive in and get going. After the first model has been completed, stand back and think about what can be done better the next time. I'm always trying to do "one better" on the next build. In the end, love building this kind of equipment. Enjoy running and operating the equipment too. Realize whatever gets built, never looks as good as the day it rolls out of the shop. My goal all along has been to build models that are reasonably good looking (without counting rivets), as close to the prototype as possible (where there is a prototype) and in a reasonable amount of time. Have too many things I'd like to build yet. Problem is...where to store them!

Once again, hope others are enjoying the passenger car series. Not quite done with the Central Pacific cars for Honest Dave. Maybe others will be inspired to build passenger cars, a caboose or old time wood equipment or any piece of rolling stock for that matter. When a train goes down the track, variety of rolling stock is a beautiful thing. Thanks again. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
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