Couple of Shorties

Where users can chronicle their builds. Start one thread and continue to add on to it.

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ccvstmr
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Re: Couple of Shorties

Post by ccvstmr »

Greg_Lewis wrote: Mon May 04, 2020 12:03 pm As to lettering: The "Virginia & Truckee" I needed for my tender was not in any recognizable font or anything close. So I took photos of the lettering on one of the engines in the museum. Then I dropped the photo into Adobe Illustrator and traced over the letters to create an outline file which the sign shop could use to make the paint mask. Tedious but it worked.
Hi Greg... can also take a photo of the real lettering and let the sign shop shrink to the dimensions you provide. Another alternative (and I have done this)...take a G scale car to the sign shop. They scanned the car and imported the image into their computer for size manipulation. Did that with a 2-bay Nickel Plate hopper back in 2002. As long as a clear image, photo or model, can be provided...the sign shop should be able to do the rest. Worked great...and here's how that turned out...

hopper1.jpg

The Rutland tender had "float on" decals applied by the original builder. Over time, the decals started to chip off. Took a photo of the better name and gave that to the sign shop to "clean up" and cut fresh vinyl. So, with the right equipment and software...there are numerous possibilities to get the desired result. Thanks for posting. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
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ccvstmr
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Re: Couple of Shorties

Post by ccvstmr »

Dick_Morris wrote: Mon May 04, 2020 3:44 pm I think Berne did two articles for HRJ, one on the cars and one included info on making seats. My recollection is that the bottom and back cushions were made from standard wooden molding, glued together and then cut into seat length sections. I don't remember what he did for ends, but 3D printing would be an option that he didn't have.
Hello Dick...not familiar with the 2nd article. Perhaps if Matt Mason "checks in", he can shed some light on the article and year/month info. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
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Re: Couple of Shorties

Post by ccvstmr »

STACK 'EM UP

There's all kinds of detail work that went into the two shorties. Will try to cover most of those, but will take several posts to do so. So, hang in there and hold on. For this entry, will show how the stove stacks took shape.

Before starting any stack design, had to do a bit research. Was able to get the following photo of the real stack on the #6 coach.

no. 6 stove pipe.jpeg

Made a stove stack for a caboose years ago. Basically took 1/2" copper pipe and fittings to come up with something that approximated a stove stack. Something like this...

IMG_2457.JPG

On a more modern caboose, could taper the ends of the "T" fitting. Lots of variations are possible.

For these passenger cars, wanted to kick it up a notch. Without prototype drawings for reference, had to guesstimate dimensions...but still use readily available materials like 1/2" copper pipe and fittings. Made a drawing. Reviewed the concept and design with Honest Dave and decided (7) stove stacks would be fabricated...(2) different designs. Tall stacks for the shorties with clerestory roofs and short stacks for Dave's wagon top cars. If a number of parts were needed...might as well make the entire batch at one time.

The stack cap was made with some brass sheet. Dave cut the stock, punched the corners and ran the blanks thru his shop kiln to anneal the metal. After that, bending the mounting taps and wrapping the brass around a round rod without spring back was much easier. A small vise was used to draw the cap ends around the forming rod.

IMG_2511.JPG

In short time, had the caps formed plus a spare.

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Cut several 1/2" copper pipes 6" long for the tall stacks and short stove pipes at 4" long. The "stops" inside the 3/4" to 1/2" copper reducers were filed out. This allowed the reducer to slide over the copper pipe freely. The ends of the stove pipes were slit on opposite sides of the copper pipe for the stack cap mounting ears.

Dave took some galvanized fender washers. Something close to 1.25" OD and opened the bore so that once pressed into the rain shield "cone shape"...the washer would still slide over the 1/2" copper pipe.

At this point, the parts were fluxed and a torch fired up to silver solder the reducer and rain shield. As fast as a handheld torch could pour the heat to the parts...that copper pipe sucked the heat away. Took a while, but was finally able to get the solder to flow.

IMG_2516.JPG

Next time, we'll pull it all together. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
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Re: Couple of Shorties

Post by ccvstmr »

STILL STACK'IN 'EM

For the final assembly step, was time to attach the stack cap to the stove pipe. Holding the caps in place was going to be a challenge. Needed something that would hold the cap shape, in position and allow the tabs to be soldered. At that point, grabbed a couple 1/2" washers and bored out the ID until that diameter matched the cap diameter. Had a way to hold the cap without needed a 3rd hand to grab the cab with a pliers or other.

IMG_2537.JPG

Used silver bearing plumbers solder to secure the tabs. Didn't want to put too much heat into the stove assembly that previous silver soldered joints would break loose.

A steel rotary brush in the drill press was used to remove excess solder from the tab joints. This was later followed with one last run thru the sand blast cabinet. After that, the soldered joints looked like nice fillets.

IMG_2539.JPG

Here's a close up of the 2 different stack styles...

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Add some satin black spray paint and when dry...install in the roof. The stove stack is secured in place with a long-er drywall screw run thru the stack mounting block and stove pipe on the roof underside.

IMG_2568.JPG

That finishes up the stove stacks. Light 'em up if you got 'em! Next time, another roof detail...ventilators. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
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Re: Couple of Shorties

Post by ccvstmr »

GOT VENTILATION?

As long as we were on the roof, might as well finish the discussion with another roof detail...ventilators. Sierra Ry #5 and #6 had (2) different types of ventilators. One or both styles may not have been original. Doubtful that any sheet metal product would have lasted 100+ years. Opted to model "cone top" ventilator for both of my models. Here's a look at the ventilator from the #6 coach...

no. 6 roof vents.jpeg

Maybe you're asking...what had to be vented? Electric car lighting was not around in the 1890's. Lamp fumes had to be vented. Here's what those lamps looked like. Each of the cars had (2) double lamp fixtures and therefore needed (4) roof vents. Can tell you, Amtrak never had classy lamps like this (maybe that was a good thing)...

_DSC6865.JPG

Guesstimated the vents were approx. 10" diameter and based the rest of the design on this dimension accordingly. Purchased some 1.25" diameter aluminum round and started to spin these in the lathe starting with the base.

IMG_1998.JPG

Made the bases .813" diameter (13/16"). Why? After the bottom of the vent was machine and parted off, could stick the base in a 13/16" 5C collet and finish the top. As long as the vent base was being machined, a center hole was drilled and tapped for a 10-24 mounting screw. Once the piece was parted off, there was no good way to hold the vent to drill/tap the hole later. Like many things, once you have a method, producing duplicates goes relatively fast. All totaled, needed (8) vents for the model #5 and #6...and a couple spares.

IMG_2002.JPG

Noticed from the magazine line drawings, the vents were NOT located the same distance from the car end...in particular for the #5 combine. Made a drill fixture from a piece of hardwood. Once the location was established from the car end, simply lined the drilling block up on those center lines and drill the mounting screw holes.

IMG_2715.JPG

Some of you might have caught a glimpse of the roof vents when other photos were inserted. Here's a view of the #6 coach roof (similar to the real #6 coach roof) shown above....

IMG_2896.JPG

Will add, the model vents became nice hand holds when removing/replacing the roof without having to grab the roof edges. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
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Re: Couple of Shorties

Post by ccvstmr »

AN ILLUMINATING IDEA

For some reason, decided to add illumination to the model #5 and #6. It's not that I do much night running, but there's always that possibility. When the #5 combine is loaded with a propane tank, battery module for power and compressor module for air brakes...there's not much room left inside the car body to see much of anything. Figured it was still worth a try and it wouldn't take a major investment to pull this together.

Purchased some lights and pulled the rest of the parts from my own electrical supplies. Work began with the roof on the bench...upside down. Made some special cradles for the roof to sit on while lighting installation work was in progress. Found yellow/amber automotive/truck clearance LED lights. These were 3/4" diameter. Made the mounting brackets for the clearance lights from some sheet metal.

When the LED lights arrived, compared illumination by connecting an LED to a 12 volt battery...and then a 9 volt battery. Lighting was somewhat dimmer with the 9 volt battery. Something akin to an oil lamp. Decided to use a 9 volt battery for now.

Here's the underside of the roof with all the hardware mounted. Located the on/off switch adjacent to the smoke stack. Would be easier to find the switch in both light and dark.

IMG_2486.JPG

Used a step drill to make the holes for the LED lights. Step drills do a nice job of deburring the hole edges. If you look directly under the LED's in the next photo...you'll see the screw heads and fender washers for the roof vents (even though LED's don't need venting!). The LED brackets were mounted to the underside of the roof spine...which runs along the center line of the car.

IMG_2487.JPG

Here's the lighting switch and battery holder (which was replaced with a plastic battery case) located adjacent to the stack base mounting block. A small terminal block was installed for the wiring connections. Like to make things so they're "serviceable" if needed. Soldering wires and covering with shrink tubing gets old after a while. Although sometimes it can't be avoided.

IMG_2488.JPG

And when the shop lights were turned out...and #5 lit up...

IMG_2506.JPG

Here's how the lighting for the #6 coach looked like...

IMG_2856.JPG

In case you're wondering about the lighting in the center clerestory windows...the roof ribs somewhat block the lighting. Event though the roof ribs are somewhat "hollowed out", there's still enough of a rib to block the lighting area. Structural integrity of the roof was more important during the construction phase of the roof. Have thought about correcting this by putting some spacers under the LED brackets...thereby lowering the lighting brackets and LED's. Getting into the roof to cut out some of the roof ribs could get ugly.

Think that about covers all the roof details. Next time, will look at some other car details. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
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Re: Couple of Shorties

Post by Steggy »

ccvstmr wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 7:53 pmCan tell you, Amtrak never had classy lamps like this (maybe that was a good thing)...
It's probably a sure bet Amtrak hasn't had the interior lighting start the car on fire. :D Can't say the same, though, about fires in the electrical panels. :twisted:
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ccvstmr
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Re: Couple of Shorties

Post by ccvstmr »

GET A GRAB HOLD

Been a few days since my last post. Time to get back into some of the other details on the model #5 and #6. Let's start with the end platforms.

End Platforms: from the start of the project, knew the theoretical floor height would be higher than the plywood base board the car was build on. Even though there was no interior floor, from the end platform...it had to LOOK like there was a finished floor inside.

End platform planks were made from white oak. These were cut and surface planed. Lightly sanded too (white oak splinters easily). Final dimension were approx. 5/8" x 5/8". While this might seem high for a platform plank, these planks needed to provide the same finished height as the other steel corner steps.

The 1st and last plank on the platform had to be notched for the corner step sides.

IMG_2493.JPG

All the planks needed a lip along the top edge.

IMG_2495.JPG

The underside of these planks had to be recessed on the ends to fit over the top of the corner step assembly where fastened to the plywood deck. For fastening, the center of the planks were drilled for (1) finishing nail. After the planks were painted, two beads of glue were run along ends to bond the planks to the plywood deck...and the nail hammered home.

If the corner steps were ever damaged or needed some other kind of work, the planks would have to be removed to access the socket flat head screws under the planks that hold the corner step assembly in place. Later on, a door threshold was installed to cover the gap between the planks and the end door.

Right Angle Handholds: for the end platform handholds, used the same fixtures for fabricating the handholds and drilling the holes in the end walls. Covered this fabrication in the Cupola Caboose Rebuild thread back in Feb, 2016.

The one difference this time, needed (8) right angle handholds for #5 and #6...(4) left hand and (4) right hand...and needed another set of (8) for Honest Dave's passenger car project. (16) total. Once the fabrication and silver soldering was complete, all the handholds were sand blasted and painted satin black. Here's the handholds prior to painting.

IMG_2362.JPG

Grab Irons: was looking at the photos of the real #5 and #6 when I noticed another grab iron on the end beam. Without any measurements, decided to use a soldering fixture used previously on the caboose project. This time, after forming the 1/8" wire in a "U" shape, set the wire in the vise upside-down on top of a 3/8" spacer. Closed the vise. And used a block of hard wood with a 45 deg cut to fold the grab iron back on to the angled wood block.

IMG_2219.JPG

During this process, my supply of brass mounting pads was getting low. Have a friend with a punch press (manual). Used a 1/4" x 1/2" oval punch and die to make enough pads for this project and some future project. There wasn't much left of the brass stock used for this process. Here again, are the end beam grab irons prior to painting.

IMG_2248.JPG

And, of course, there's a drilling fixture that gets placed over the top edge of the end beam to drill .128" diameter holes for the 1/8" diameter steel wire. After the holes are drilled, the grab irons are pressed in place. The screw holes are then drilled using the mounting pads as a guide. Used brass #2 hex head x 3/8" long lag screws for mounting. btw...if you plan on using such screws...do yourself a favor and get a good quality hex driver for 1/8" hex heads (IIRC). Here's the completed end beam assembly before being mounted on the car.

IMG_2476.JPG

Next time, will cover some of the plumbing work "down-under". Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
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Re: Couple of Shorties

Post by ccvstmr »

A TRIP DOWN-UNDER

With most of the work top-side completed, it was time to flip the car upside-down (carefully) and work on some of the underside aspects of the car build and other details...even if those might NEVER see the light of day.

Rods 'n Posts: old time cars with wooden frames were known for truss rods to pull the ends of the car together and prevent middle-age "sag". While it's doubtful the model #5 and #6 will ever encounter this problem, truss rods, even if only the (2) outboard rods were installed as a nice feature.

Got on line to find 8-32 thread die cast turnbuckles. If you're going to do more work like this, best to find a source of such parts and "stock up". As has been pointed out before on Chaski...never know when the resources will no longer be available. As for tooling, if you've already got right hand taps and dies...might want to latch on to left hand taps and dies for this kind of work.

The steel hardware provided with the turnbuckles was set aside. Made my own rods with 1/8" steel wire. Made left/right hand threads accordingly. Estimated the rod lengths as close as possible. Best to make them longer than needed and trim off the excess later. Had Honest Dave TIG weld some washers on one end of each rod for mounting to the underside of the car body.

Did the best I could to scale the queen post dimensions from the magazine line drawings while maintaining proportions. Turned the post fabrication part of the project over to Dave. Needed (8) short posts for #5 and #6. As long as Dave was set up to make queen posts, had him make (8) longer queen posts for his project. Believe the posts were made with brass, sand blasted and painted when the turning was complete.

Queen posts timbers were cut and planed from white oak. The #5 combine presented another challenge...the propane tank ventilation floor screen was directly where the queen post timbers would be located. Made the appropriate cut and splices so the timbers would "bridge" the screen and steel center sill.

The queen posts were drilled and tapped during fabrication. Want to say tapped for short pieces of 10-32 thread rod. The queen post timbers were also drilled and tapped. A short 10-32 stud was used to screw the queen post onto the timber. Would tighten the queen post until the rod seats were parallel to the car edge.

Took a 4-40 stainless square nut and drilled/tapped that for 8-32 RH thread. Would use this as a turnbuckle lock nut after the installation was completed. Threaded the lock nut in place on the right hand threaded rod and then screwed the rods part way into the turnbuckle. Set the turnbuckle on the rods, centered the turnbuckle and marked the location to bend the rod ends. When satisfied with the "fit", drilled pilot holes and screwed the ends of the rods to car body. Rotated the turnbuckle to tighten the parts and screwed the lock nut against the turnbuckle. Geez...took longer to describe this than the actual work. In the end, here's how the posts, rods and turnbuckle turned out.

IMG_2521.JPG

Pneumatics: as long as the car was upside down, this was the time to install the air brake hardware. I am aware there are those that advocate simulated triple valve type air brake systems. Can appreciate the effort that went into the design and fabrication to make working pneumatic systems like that. I've run "straight air" brakes for years for several reasons (whether people agree or not..and don't want to start a "brake" debate here): 1) simplicity, 2) cost, 3) ease of teaching newbies train brake handling and stopping distance. It's more important to be able to stop the train...than to get it going!

The #5 combine was built to carry a propane fuel tank for the loco, but also carry an air compressor module for brakes and a 12 volt battery module for compressor power and locomotive lighting. The battery module has a self contained charger built into the module.

As such, two air lines are needed. I call the 1st air line the "air reservoir". The compressor module has an air reservoir. An on-board pressure switch maintains reservoir pressure between 50 - 60 psi. The reservoir line runs under the combine, jumps over to run along the underside of the tender and then jump over to the locomotive cab. The cab has a brake lever stand and a Clippard MAR-1C linear regulator mounted under the cab floor. A cam, operated by the brake lever, will push the plunger on the linear regulator farther in as the brake handle is turned. When the brake handle is returned to "release" or off position, the regulator vents whatever air pressure was in the line. Similar operation is attained with the Clippard MAR-1 rotary regulator. The cab floor has (2) pressure gauges. One gauge displays the reservoir pressure. The other gauge displays the "brake pipe" or regulated pressure. From the pressure regulator, a 2nd air line known as the "brake pipe" runs back under the tender to the combine and any trailing cars with air brakes.

In the next photo, the (2) air lines are color-coded. The gray poly tubing line is the air reservoir and the black poly tubing is the brake pipe. During installation, had to go back and open gaps in the body bolsters and queen post timbers to pass the 1/4" poly tubing thru. Else, simply used 1/4" cable clamps to hold the poly tubing in place.

IMG_2520.JPG

Note the Clippard quick connectors mounted to the end beam are color-coded as well. The air reservoir line uses nickel-plated connector. The brake pipe line uses the standard brass connectors. The back of the tender is similarly equipped. When I travel and have someone helping to get the train put together, it's easier to instruct them...nickel to nickel and brass to brass for the air line connections.

Another note...Clippard quick connectors are installed between the brake pipe and each truck. I'm a strong believer in serviceability. It's amazing how the poly tubing gets shorter each time you have to cut and splice it. Therefore, if the trucks need to be removed for service... disconnect the truck quick connector, pull the "R" clip that retains the truck on the king pin, lift the car end and roll the truck out (and set the car on a block). Have never regretted the extra cost for a pair of quick connectors. The poly tubing pig-tail for the quick connector on the car body is kept as short as possible. If the air line to the truck needs to be disconnected, it stays out of the way.

Have never liked the use of "X" or "T" fittings. Have enough Clippard parts on hand to make up a right angle "T" fitting alongside the center sill. This keeps the air connections centered. A small amount of slack is left to allow for truck swing.

From the other end of the car, you can see where the air reservoir line passes thru the car floor to the compressor module that would be located inside the car. The brake pipe line terminates at the quick connector plate on the other end beam. Best to secure the poly air lines as close to the center sill and as close to the floor as possible to keep the wheel flanges from contacting and rubbing a hole in the poly tubing.

IMG_2522.JPG

Break...think I'll stop here. Next time, will cover the fuel plumbing. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
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Re: Couple of Shorties

Post by Glenn Brooks »

I greatly admire your attention to detailing and modeling the original design. Fantastic job figuring out how to down size these component designs- such as the covered smoke stack, pneumatics, and tensioning bars. And each part has a function. Simply remarkable!

Glenn
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ccvstmr
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Re: Couple of Shorties

Post by ccvstmr »

Glenn Brooks wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 6:23 pm I greatly admire your attention to detailing and modeling the original design. Fantastic job figuring out how to down size these component designs- such as the covered smoke stack, pneumatics, and tensioning bars. And each part has a function. Simply remarkable! Glenn
Thank you Glenn. Appreciate your comments. Y'know, the greatest compliment people can pay to one another on this board is when they take posted ideas and use them and/or improve them...for their own use. Didn't expect anyone here to build a couple shorties on their own (although they're welcome to). But, my efforts might have planted the seeds for others looking to do similar old time passenger cars (or even wood styled 'booses"). It's been one helluva journey for sure! Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
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Re: Couple of Shorties

Post by ccvstmr »

STILL DOWN UNDER

With the pneumatic air brake installation out of the way, was time to turn my attention to the propane plumbing. As noted from the start...might never couple these cars up behind the Rutland...but it's nice to know I can do that at some point in the future with little extra effort...and provide fuel for the locomotive.

Didn't realize this at the start, but getting the fuel piping routed from the end beam, behind the corner steps to inside the car body was not going to be as straight forward as originally envisioned.

Pulled out my supply of 1/4" brass fittings and started working on the puzzle. Other than an elevation change, the 1st attempt was basically a straight line. Realized this wouldn't work. Needed more clearance for the truck swing and keep all the plumbing as close to the plywood floor as possible.

IMG_2523.JPG

When the flare fitting peeked out from under the end beam, the fitting would be pointed down and inward at 45 deg angles. The fuel line would cross under the drawbar coupler to mate with a similar fitting on the opposite side of the tender end beam. Air brake lines crossed under the coupler in the opposite direction. This arrangement allows for vertical movement of the tender with respect to the car as well as needed flex when going around a curve. Eventually, a bracket would be added to support the end of the brass piping.

IMG_2526.JPG

The 2nd plumbing attempt kicked the inboard end of the piping towards the center sill at a 45 deg angle (good thing I had a lot of 45 deg elbows). At this point, realized I was heading in the right direction.

IMG_2530.JPG

Was obvious the back of the corner step and the back of the safety chain bracket would need some "surgery". Once the piping would lay in as desired, figured out where the hole penetration would be located. A hole saw made quick work of cutting an oversized hole (oversize so there was room to maneuver the final placement).

IMG_2541.JPG

As the piping arrangement was being finalized, one side of a 90 deg. elbow was sanded to fit the smallest possible hole in a brass mounting plate. These were soft soldered. The 45 deg elbow where the flare fitting was mounted had the sharp corners rounded over with the belt sander. When all the work was completed, the entire set up was run thru a sand blast cabinet for cleaning before painting. Threaded fittings were assembled with Permabond LH050 anerobic thread sealer.

IMG_2544.JPG

Once inside the car body, found the stub up thru the floor was located too close to the end wall frame. Once again, took a 90 deg elbow back to the belt sander to round the fitting face...so it could be spun on to the protruding pipe nipple and clear the end wall (without the tubing barb in place).

IMG_2569.JPG

Final connection to the tank would be via 3/8" flexible fuel line to the fuel regulator that would be mounted to the tank valve.

The plumbing work was now completed. Was time to play a little with some interesting details...next time. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
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