Front End Rebuild
Moderator: Harold_V
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- Location: Woodinville, Washington
Re: Front End Rebuild
Got the smoke stack fitted this afternoon. Decided to make up some custom round headed shoulder bolts to fasten the stack back down, in lieu of cheap DIY hex head bolts, that I don’t have on hand anyhow. (Not going to court the virus in the hardware store for a small handfull of 1/4” hex bolts!). Making these was more fun anyway.
These are 1/4 x3/4 x20tpi thread.
Planning on making three more with thread maybe 1 1/4” long, to hang the blast pipe with some small custom hangers.
Good days work in the bolts. Then half day in drilling and fitting to get the holes lined up...
Kind of like how they look mounted on the smokebox...
Looks like the last step is remount and center the blast pipe over the nozzle, then fire it up!
Glenn
Glenn
These are 1/4 x3/4 x20tpi thread.
Planning on making three more with thread maybe 1 1/4” long, to hang the blast pipe with some small custom hangers.
Good days work in the bolts. Then half day in drilling and fitting to get the holes lined up...
Kind of like how they look mounted on the smokebox...
Looks like the last step is remount and center the blast pipe over the nozzle, then fire it up!
Glenn
Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum
Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge
Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge
Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
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- Posts: 2930
- Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
- Location: Woodinville, Washington
Re: Front End Rebuild
Nope, more to be done.
The shoulder bolts don’t sit square on the tapered smoke stack casting. So decided to make up some angle washers to better distribute the clamping pressure of the 8 bolts.
Amazing how much machinery and set up goes into making such a small little part.
Here’s the process I used:
Step 1: using the SB 14” lathe- turn down 7” length of bronze round stock to .625” OD
Step 2: center drill and drill 1/4” center hole
Step 3: set dividing head to 6* vertical angle; mill the angle with the Bridgeport clone.
Step 5: go back to the lathe, part off washer 1/8” from angled cut.
Step 6: mount washer in second operation lathe (Dalton 7” lathe), turn off excess from parting op. (No mean feat to true up a 1/8” washer!)
Step 7: deburr ID with hand held center drill edge.
Step 8: used my Brand New 5c collet block to mill 3/8” flats on the shoulder bolts - couldn’t torque them down as made, so decided to mill the flats to be able to disassemble latter - with a small box end wrench.
Turned out to be great fun!
Glenn
The shoulder bolts don’t sit square on the tapered smoke stack casting. So decided to make up some angle washers to better distribute the clamping pressure of the 8 bolts.
Amazing how much machinery and set up goes into making such a small little part.
Here’s the process I used:
Step 1: using the SB 14” lathe- turn down 7” length of bronze round stock to .625” OD
Step 2: center drill and drill 1/4” center hole
Step 3: set dividing head to 6* vertical angle; mill the angle with the Bridgeport clone.
Step 5: go back to the lathe, part off washer 1/8” from angled cut.
Step 6: mount washer in second operation lathe (Dalton 7” lathe), turn off excess from parting op. (No mean feat to true up a 1/8” washer!)
Step 7: deburr ID with hand held center drill edge.
Step 8: used my Brand New 5c collet block to mill 3/8” flats on the shoulder bolts - couldn’t torque them down as made, so decided to mill the flats to be able to disassemble latter - with a small box end wrench.
Turned out to be great fun!
Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum
Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge
Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge
Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
Re: Front End Rebuild
Glenn:
My 5C collet blocks have been two of the most useful tools in my Shop Arsenal!
I find lots of uses for them.
RussN
My 5C collet blocks have been two of the most useful tools in my Shop Arsenal!
I find lots of uses for them.
RussN
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- Posts: 2930
- Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
- Location: Woodinville, Washington
Re: Front End Rebuild
Yes, I can see why! Glad I splurged on these.
Glenn
Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum
Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge
Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge
Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
Re: Front End Rebuild
Nice work on the special bolts and coped spacers Glenn. I totally understand staying home and making your own stuff, the hardware stores here are swarming with people picking up stuff for projects.
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- Posts: 2930
- Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
- Location: Woodinville, Washington
Re: Front End Rebuid
Finally finished the last phase of the rebuild - reinstalling the exhaust pipe, aka ‘Petticoat’ inside the smoke box. Turned out to be a fascinating, and more complicated bit of work than I expected.
First, as we must be diligent about proper terminology, lest the machining gods reign thunder and lightening upon us- it seems the ‘Petticoat’ is actually, and only, the flared end of the ejector tube. So technically I hung the ‘ejector tube’ - correction: it’s actually named a ‘diffuser’ in the Lempor design - from inside the smoke stack to a point 1” more or less, above the multi-port blast nozzle.
Now, this was more complicated than I expected. The as-built installation consisted of wedging the ’diffuser’ casting up into a bunch of hardened putty in the smoke stack, and holding it place by wedging against a hose clamp attached to the old steam inlet pipe. As neither pipe, nor clamp, nor putty, existed anymore, I decided to construct an actual hanger assembly to hold this thing in place.
Went out to the shop with three distinct plans in mind and sat down in front of the smoke box. Instantly, all three went out the window and this materialized.
The hanger bars at the top (there are two, one in front and one in the rear) are held in place by extra long stack bolts that protrude down into the smoke 1 1/2” inches; one in the front and one in the rear. Each end of the cross bar is held in tension against the upper inside quarter of the smoke box shell. The two stainless rods hang down below the petticoat. Each rod accepts one of the four ‘claws’ that grip the underside of the pettycoat flare. Through meticulous design, and a fair bit of sheer luck, when I tighten everything up, it all fit nicely in place.
Everything is basically 1/4” x20 thread. The hanger bits are carved out of 1/2” flat bar. Also Iam using lock washers to keep the nuts in place, until rust and coal smoke lock everything into place.
Photo below shows the ‘claw’ or petticoat clamp that snags the bottom edge of the flare. My first attempt was not effective. It slid off the edge of the casting. So made the body of the part 3/4” tall to provide rigidity and tension against the little vertical SS rod. The lip on the end of the clamp helps draw the part up tight and solid against the pettycoat.
Front hanger assembly. Ready to go. Both hangers, together, add solid four point rigidity to the tube. Each hanger rod can be adjusted to center the petticoat along the axis of the smoke stack, directly over the blast nozzle.
Last thing is to add a bit of refractory cement into the saddle cutout in the bottom of the smoke box, and then fire it up for testing!
Hopefully.
Glenn
First, as we must be diligent about proper terminology, lest the machining gods reign thunder and lightening upon us- it seems the ‘Petticoat’ is actually, and only, the flared end of the ejector tube. So technically I hung the ‘ejector tube’ - correction: it’s actually named a ‘diffuser’ in the Lempor design - from inside the smoke stack to a point 1” more or less, above the multi-port blast nozzle.
Now, this was more complicated than I expected. The as-built installation consisted of wedging the ’diffuser’ casting up into a bunch of hardened putty in the smoke stack, and holding it place by wedging against a hose clamp attached to the old steam inlet pipe. As neither pipe, nor clamp, nor putty, existed anymore, I decided to construct an actual hanger assembly to hold this thing in place.
Went out to the shop with three distinct plans in mind and sat down in front of the smoke box. Instantly, all three went out the window and this materialized.
The hanger bars at the top (there are two, one in front and one in the rear) are held in place by extra long stack bolts that protrude down into the smoke 1 1/2” inches; one in the front and one in the rear. Each end of the cross bar is held in tension against the upper inside quarter of the smoke box shell. The two stainless rods hang down below the petticoat. Each rod accepts one of the four ‘claws’ that grip the underside of the pettycoat flare. Through meticulous design, and a fair bit of sheer luck, when I tighten everything up, it all fit nicely in place.
Everything is basically 1/4” x20 thread. The hanger bits are carved out of 1/2” flat bar. Also Iam using lock washers to keep the nuts in place, until rust and coal smoke lock everything into place.
Photo below shows the ‘claw’ or petticoat clamp that snags the bottom edge of the flare. My first attempt was not effective. It slid off the edge of the casting. So made the body of the part 3/4” tall to provide rigidity and tension against the little vertical SS rod. The lip on the end of the clamp helps draw the part up tight and solid against the pettycoat.
Front hanger assembly. Ready to go. Both hangers, together, add solid four point rigidity to the tube. Each hanger rod can be adjusted to center the petticoat along the axis of the smoke stack, directly over the blast nozzle.
Last thing is to add a bit of refractory cement into the saddle cutout in the bottom of the smoke box, and then fire it up for testing!
Hopefully.
Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum
Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge
Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge
Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
Re: Front End Rebuild
Glenn:
All of the full-sized petticoat/ejector tubes I have worked with had an open section at the top of the smokebox.
In practice this opening was supposed to entrain additional smokebox gasses out the stack.
Note that these were used in oil burning locomotives.
RussN
All of the full-sized petticoat/ejector tubes I have worked with had an open section at the top of the smokebox.
In practice this opening was supposed to entrain additional smokebox gasses out the stack.
Note that these were used in oil burning locomotives.
RussN
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- Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
- Location: Woodinville, Washington
Re: Front End Rebuild
Russ, interesting. Thanks! Good to know. I studied Koopmans book fairly extensively in the beginning and only remember him commenting that oil burners and coal burners had somewhat different exhaust requirements, because of the need for lots of combustion air over the grates in coal fired locos. Didn’t see a slot in any of the research examples he reviewed... however he only covered coal fired locos. So likely overlooked this feature.
Curious, Did you build your New engine with the slot? And How does it perform in miniature scale? Fascinating stuff.
Glenn
Curious, Did you build your New engine with the slot? And How does it perform in miniature scale? Fascinating stuff.
Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum
Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge
Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge
Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
Re: Front End Rebuild
Glenn:
Only my Mikado has the gap (a small one) above the ejector tube. The Ten Wheeler utilizes the Allen cast upper smokebox with the included ejector tube part of the casting.
My Ten Wheeler, with many miles on it, has always worked quite fine, and I can get 8 full hours of heavy steaming (Train Mountain style) from the single forklift tank behind.
My Mikado has only been operated one test time on rails, so I don't yet know its idiosyncracies and performance. But I'm expecting it will be similar to the Ten Wheeler, since they are set up alike.
I've been signed up and ready to head to the Train Mountain RR Narrow Gauge meet the last weekend of May, but it looks like it won't happen.
Patience...
RussN
Only my Mikado has the gap (a small one) above the ejector tube. The Ten Wheeler utilizes the Allen cast upper smokebox with the included ejector tube part of the casting.
My Ten Wheeler, with many miles on it, has always worked quite fine, and I can get 8 full hours of heavy steaming (Train Mountain style) from the single forklift tank behind.
My Mikado has only been operated one test time on rails, so I don't yet know its idiosyncracies and performance. But I'm expecting it will be similar to the Ten Wheeler, since they are set up alike.
I've been signed up and ready to head to the Train Mountain RR Narrow Gauge meet the last weekend of May, but it looks like it won't happen.
Patience...
RussN
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- Posts: 2930
- Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
- Location: Woodinville, Washington
Re: Front End Rebuild
Russ, I think they are cancelling thru mid summer. At least that’s the internal discussion Jeff mentioned last week.
BTW, our breakfast group is meeting again, via Zoom. BYOB (Bring your own Breakfast) to the computer and join us. Iam sure the gang would enjoy talking with you! Kirk, Georges son in law sets up the meeting.
I’ll send you the link when it gets posted. Probably latter today.
Glenn
BTW, our breakfast group is meeting again, via Zoom. BYOB (Bring your own Breakfast) to the computer and join us. Iam sure the gang would enjoy talking with you! Kirk, Georges son in law sets up the meeting.
I’ll send you the link when it gets posted. Probably latter today.
Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum
Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge
Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge
Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
Re: Front End Rebuild
Glenn:
Thanks for the info.
I'm already on the list for the KLS Breakfast Zoom meetings. I really miss those times together since I moved.
But being the mental Lighthouse Keeper I am, I've simply not gotten online with them yet.
Thinking...
Russ
Thanks for the info.
I'm already on the list for the KLS Breakfast Zoom meetings. I really miss those times together since I moved.
But being the mental Lighthouse Keeper I am, I've simply not gotten online with them yet.
Thinking...
Russ
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- Posts: 2930
- Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
- Location: Woodinville, Washington
Re: Front End Rebuild
Final overall configuration of steam plumbing, Lempor, and stack. Cement patch in the bottom of the tube is drying. Looks like the flues are going to be much more accessible for cleaning.
Trying to figure out if the local Napa store has curb side delivery for a rattle can or two of charcoal grey hi temp paint for the smoke box and stack. If so, a touch up to the livery might be in order.
Glenn
Trying to figure out if the local Napa store has curb side delivery for a rattle can or two of charcoal grey hi temp paint for the smoke box and stack. If so, a touch up to the livery might be in order.
Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum
Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge
Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge
Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....