made some chips...

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liveaboard
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Re: made some chips...

Post by liveaboard »

The original gear was still in there and it's more like a sprocket, but very thin.
The original rack must have been something like a row of short stubby rods, like a chain or half a chain, maybe between 2 thin strips to hold it all in place.
Possibly fragile.
The sprocket looks worn too.
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Bill Shields
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Re: made some chips...

Post by Bill Shields »

Now that u mention it...I have seen them as stretched out roller chain.

Quick dirty and low cost since all it is doing is ruff positioning
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
pete
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Re: made some chips...

Post by pete »

Those older Machinery's Handbooks are pretty cheap. Roughly $20-$30 is average, shipping to you you would add extra though. Yes they'd be in imperial but that's easy enough to convert, cutting speed and feeds aren't hard to convert. All you really need is the recommended fpm for the material your cutting and you calculate from that.And rpm is rpm in either.For us any of the more modern industrial reference books are (rightly so) more about CNC and Carbide than having tables for HSS. So we have to work with those older books.

There's some very nice tooling coming out of the Czech Republic, my Narex B&F head is one of the better and nicer tools I have. Collet chucks from there should be very good.

LOL, design mistakes are a part of gaining experience, and experience is gained from making those mistakes.
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liveaboard
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Re: made some chips...

Post by liveaboard »

I know you guys all love that book, but a reference work with the wrong references is just the wrong book for me.
I did find an "international edition with expanded metric content", maybe I can get that.

Shipping anything from outside the EU is a problem, items get stuck in customs. tariffs and sales tax add 50% (including the shipping cost), if it can be cleared at all. They usually want paperwork that doesn't exist. I've learned to just not do it to avoid the aggravation.

With the UK now outside the EU, English language items become rare. Amazon has their ways, I've been using them more now. But their offerings are limited.
pete
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Re: made some chips...

Post by pete »

There's one called the Engineers Black Book that seems to be common in Europe that's supposed to be good and can be bought in both imperial and metric versions, but I've not yet looked through one so I can't say how good it is. By a strange coincidence I just ran across a post by Rich Carlstedt (thanks Rich) on the HSM forum where there were changes to the MH in 1962 I hadn't known about. Thread standards and counter bore sizes for shcs as examples. So for more modern information that would be the cut off date I'd use. And apparently they began introducing a lot more metric based information starting with the 26th edition. Not that I do much in metric, but any time I have I really haven't found my MHbook to be an issue. Just remember that any book meant to be used in an industrial environment will usually assume the use of flood coolant, large, heavy, rigid machines with high HP and your doing production numbers of parts. Cutting speeds are averaged out to gain the most parts count per hr. while still having a tolerable cutting tool life. So there cutting tool costs are built into the parts selling price.

For us were usually interested more in tool life than high production. And those recommended numbers are always MAXIMUM speeds. I usually drop the recommended numbers by 10%-30% and sometimes work up a bit from there. Cutting speeds are not linear, a 10% reduction doesn't mean you would get 10% better tool life, it's usually quite a bit more. And today's carbide with there different grades and constantly changing coatings really makes a maximum cutting speed recommendation almost impossible. For that you pretty much need to visit the manufacturer's web site if your buying brand name carbide tips. But I always use the chip color as my first indicator anyway. With HSS and cutting steel, at most I'll go with a slightly darker color to the chip, with carbide a dark brown to light blue. A dark blue, rainbow or purplish color and your almost always right out on the edge of too fast. And most of those color changes should be happening after the chip is formed and has been removed, not as the chip is being formed. You want the frictional heat that's being generated to come out in the chip and not go into the part. A too slow feed rate causes cutting edge rubbing and the part will heat up and your cutting edge life really goes down.

One milling user tip that's not optional. Never ever start the machine until you've double or even triple checked the vise bolts and it's handle and/or all the hold down clamps and bolts are in fact tight. That's a habit that should be done enough to become automatic. Trust me, it's almost never a good day if the part moves and even permanent damage to the machine can be done up to a bent spindle, horizontal arbor or sections of the table being ripped out if it really goes bad. If you don't do that double check it's not going to be an if it's going to happen, only how long until it does. It's way too easy to partially tighten things while indicating in and then forget to fully tighten them later. And there's a set procedure while using strap clamps, step blocks and hold down bolts that's not well known by people who haven't used them very much before. The bolt has to be as close to the part as possible and the strap clamp should be angled a very few degrees down onto the part face. That puts as much as possible of the clamping force onto the part instead of onto the step blocks where it doesn't matter. Have it set up any other way and you vastly reduce your clamping pressures on the part which is what you don't want moving. So done wrong and even with the bolts tight the part can still move. And other than gaining access to the part with the cutting tool there's no such thing as having too many clamps. If you've got room and the extra hold down hardware then add another one any time you can. Knowing for certain the part won't move is a lot better than guessing it won't. There's also simple physics at work when clamping anything to the table. A milling vise as an example with through holes for the bolts supports the upper part of the tee slots as the bolt goes tight. So the forces are always compressive and well supported. With a tee bolt and with nothing above it the top of the tee slot and table is always in tension. Cast iron is pretty weak in tension, so be careful about how much your tightening in situations like that. And using a standard bolt head in those tee slots even if it fits well is a real bad idea. Tee bolts and nuts are designed the way they are for good reason. They spread the loads out over a larger surface area because those tee slots are fairly weak. And not all milling accessories will fit whatever standard bolt or stud diameter your using. My rotary table doesn't. It's handy as one of your first projects to machine a couple of lengths of bar stock into the measured profile shape to fit your tee slots. Key stock from an industrial supplier works well.That's your blank set of tee nuts. Drill, tap and cut to length for anything that needs a smaller bolt size as there needed. BUT!!!! a bolt should never ever be allowed to thread completely through those tee nuts. If the bolt is too long it exerts a jacking force against those tee slots. That can also break out a section of the table. It's easiest to tap completely through the tee nut and then upset the last few threads on the bottom of the tee nut with something like a cold chisel. That interference prevents the bolts from ever going all the way through the nut. The better commercially manufactured tee nuts are all made to work that way.

And edited to add. After a bit of thought I'd be willing to bet that over 80% of a Machinery's Handbook has nothing to do with either imperial or metric specified material. There a large area that gives trig examples of problem solving and a huge number of listings for industrial standards. With what I know about what it has I'd still very much own a copy if everything I did was all in metric.
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liveaboard
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Re: made some chips...

Post by liveaboard »

That's good info, Pete.

I am planning to make a bunch of T nuts for it as the next job.
Luckily my rotary table mounting holes do line up with the 50mm spaced slots.

Here is my treasure collection, less the 4 collet holders that came today;
cutter collection.jpg
I don't have cutting bars for the boring tool, I haven't found any except in the UK so far.
I have 2 Rohm drill chucks, an mt3 adaptor, an mt2 adaptor, etc.

for now, other work needs doing for a while.
pete
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Re: made some chips...

Post by pete »

It looks like your already doing pretty well for tooling Mark. Rohm make some nice chucks. Owning a mill is like having a kid that never grows up and leaves the house, or quits asking for new and ever more expensive toys. :-) Going by your past projects I'm sure you'll be doing some larger work. Having at least one left hand boring tool that fits the horizontal cross hole in your boring head would also be a big help for through holes.
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liveaboard
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Re: made some chips...

Post by liveaboard »

Why does it have to be left hand?
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Bill Shields
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Re: made some chips...

Post by Bill Shields »

Depends on the direction of rotation for cutting
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
pete
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Re: made some chips...

Post by pete »

Well I'm assuming you have a threaded connection between the boring head and your tool shank. That's what my Criterions use. So that tool rotation direction is important. Unscrewing the head while cutting if you have reverse on your spindle motor isn't recommended. That depends on exactly how yours is set up though. My Narex head uses a different method, it uses a ground stub to locate the head to the shank C/L and 4 shcs to secure the tool shank to the head. So the tool can be used in either direction of rotation without a problem.
Russ Hanscom
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Re: made some chips...

Post by Russ Hanscom »

Both The Engineer's Black book and Marks Machinery's hand book are worth having. I rate Marks as slightly more theoretical and Black as more practical; they overlap 50-75% in content.

One section I particularly like in the Black book is the section on carbide tool holders and carbide inserts and carbide grades. If you want to decipher the alphabet soup stamped on an insert holder shank....
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liveaboard
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Re: made some chips...

Post by liveaboard »

pete wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:14 pm Well I'm assuming you have a threaded connection between the boring head and your tool shank.
I actually haven't checked, but I'm pretty sure you're right.
That is, correct.

I have a bid on an English 28th machinery's handbook on Dutch ebay. No other bidders so far.
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