Milling Vise Squareness

Discussion on all milling machines vertical & horizontal, including but not limited to Bridgeports, Hardinge, South Bend, Clausing, Van Norman, including imports.

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Harold_V
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Re: Milling Vise Squareness

Post by Harold_V »

KellyJones wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:06 am Russell got it exactly right.The vise appears to be out in the Z axis, that is, parallelism to the table surface.
Kelly, am I thick, or do you mean that it's a perpendicularity problem? The Z axis is normally the quill/spindle----and I gather that the vise jaw isn't parallel when the spindle is dialed true to the table. Am I correct?

If so, I've talked about that problem previously. I sub-contracted a job where I had to square hundreds of 5/8" x 5/8" x approximately 1" long leaded brass blocks, which after being rough machined and squared were transformed in to read and write heads for IBM computers. This was long ago, in the late 60's, when NC's were used (not CNC's). I had to hold the blocks square within a half thou, and struggled endlessly with what was then a new Bridgeport vise. I switched to a Kurt and my problems ended 100%.

I now own two Kurt vises. I have little interest in anything else. They work, and they work well.

Just sayin'!

Disclaimer: I have no interest in the Kurt organization aside from being a very pleased user of their products.

H
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ctwo
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Re: Milling Vise Squareness

Post by ctwo »

shootnride wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:17 pm It seems that this issue could be resolved with some careful set-up by truing the vise base on a surface grinder.
Ted
This was the thought I had. Remove all jaws and measure the height of the vise ways on the surface plate. If they are at least parallel to each other in both axis, you could grind in the bottom. Would it be wrong to even consider fly cutting the bottom if a surface grinder was not available?
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rmac
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Re: Milling Vise Squareness

Post by rmac »

Harold_V wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:56 am
KellyJones wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:06 am Russell got it exactly right.The vise appears to be out in the Z axis, that is, parallelism to the table surface.
Kelly, am I thick, or do you mean that it's a perpendicularity problem? The Z axis is normally the quill/spindle----and I gather that the vise jaw isn't parallel when the spindle is dialed true to the table. Am I correct?
I don't understand the reference to the Z axis, either. But Kelly's problem is that the bed of the vise (i.e. the surface on which you'd set parallels) isn't parallel to the base of the vise (i.e. the surface that rests on the mill table).

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Bill Shields
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Re: Milling Vise Squareness

Post by Bill Shields »

that is Z axis
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kl7sg
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Re: Milling Vise Squareness

Post by kl7sg »

On a vertical mill, the axes that run parallel to the surface of the table are X an Y.
The z axis is the direction that is normal to the table ( 90 degree angle from the table)
The surfaces that you are speaking about are XY planes that are offset from the table in the Z axis direction.
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kl7sg
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Re: Milling Vise Squareness

Post by kl7sg »

If I am understanding this correctly, the vise Y axis has tilt in the +/- Z axis direction.
It seems to me that this is corrected with head "Nod" adjustment???
Have a nice day,

Mike
John Hasler
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Re: Milling Vise Squareness

Post by John Hasler »

kl7sg wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:44 am If I am understanding this correctly, the vise Y axis has tilt in the +/- Z axis direction.
It seems to me that this is corrected with head "Nod" adjustment???

Then the spindle axis will be neither parallel to the column nor perpendicular to the table.
kl7sg
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Re: Milling Vise Squareness

Post by kl7sg »

Yes, that makes sense.
Have a nice day,

Mike
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Bill Shields
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Re: Milling Vise Squareness

Post by Bill Shields »

kl7sg wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:38 am On a vertical mill, the axes that run parallel to the surface of the table are X an Y.
The z axis is the direction that is normal to the table ( 90 degree angle from the table)
The surfaces that you are speaking about are XY planes that are offset from the table in the Z axis direction.
is the same on a horizontal mill....

Generally, Z follows the milling tool axis....on a machine that is primarily a mill.

is a different critter if the machine is primarily a lathe.
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Bill Shields
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Re: Milling Vise Squareness

Post by Bill Shields »

dumb question:

what happens if you check tram of the head to the table? -> check to see if the rotating spindle is perpendicular to the table

or have you already done that?
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Harold_V
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Re: Milling Vise Squareness

Post by Harold_V »

Ok, I have a clear image now. It can be described two ways, one being perpendicularity to the X-Y axes, the other as parallelism to the theoretical Z axis. It can manifest as an error in the true Z axis, with error front to back, side to side, or a combination of the two. The side to side error could be corrected by altering the base. The front to back error, not so much.

I agree with shootnride. The vise can be corrected by a careful setup such that the ways of the vise are dead parallel to the table of the mill or surface grinder. The base would then be machined (fly cutter) or ground. That will correct any parallelism problems the vise may have, but it does NOT address any possible deviation from perpendicularity in the fixed jaw as it relates to the Y axis. If there is error in that axis, the fixed jaw would then require correction.

H
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kl7sg
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Re: Milling Vise Squareness

Post by kl7sg »

Yes, that is how I see it.

But, the correction would require two things.
1) correct the error in the vise fixed jaw.
2) adjust for the y axis tilt with by changing the height of the vise fixed jaw parallel (if used)

If not, when tightened, you run the risk of the work piece following the tilted vise way.
Have a nice day,

Mike
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