New member, looking for some guidance.

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miken
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Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:56 am
Location: Maine

New member, looking for some guidance.

Post by miken »

New member, looking for some guidance.

Hi all, I purchased an Atlas model 3990 (undermount with original cabinet and quick change gearbox) from an estate sale and have spent the last couple weeks cleaning it up and doing a lot of reading. It came with a lot of attachments, steady rest, follower rest, milling attachment, taper attachment, separate grinder with diamond dresser/holder, drill chucks, spindle chucks, tool holders and numerous cutting bits and blanks. I have the milling collet draw bar, but I think I am missing a spacer as the draw bar seems too long. Maybe that can be a first project if I can find dimensions for it. I also only have half of the larger boring bar holder, missing the castle looking base, but it has a turret style bit holder, and the original lantern style.

I was hoping I could get some advice on oil. The manual says to use SAE 10 for the spindle, and 20 everywhere else. It mentions the obsolete Keystone 122 grease can be used to help quiet the gears, but I just got done cleaning years of grease and think I will stick to oil for a while. Is it ok to not use grease on the drive gears? I have not been able to locate much for SAE 10 or 20 non-detergent oils locally. I bought some SAE 30 non-detergent for now from NAPA. Does anyone have a good source for oil in quarts? How important is "way" oil or can I just use the SAE 10 on the ways? I have read about Mobile Velocite and Vactra, but they seem pricey. Are they worth it? This machine is not going to get daily use?

How important is leveling for a beginner? The manual says I need a level that will move the bubble 1/8" when the end of the bed is raised 0.003". I don't have a machinists level, and don't understand the accuracy to look for. They seem very expensive so I am wondering if I would even notice a difference as compared to a carpenters level? I also do not have the cabinet bolted to the concrete floor. I am not sure where its final home will be.

Are there supposed to be wicks in the quick change gear box oilers, or just the timken bearing oilers? Where can I get these wicks?

Lastly, at a higher speed I could just start to feel a slight vibration or wobble (not the right word). The two drive belts are not worn evenly and one is stretched more than the other (I did the chalk test). I read on this site something about purchasing matched sets. Does anyone know the belt model number/length for my lathe, and where I should order from? Would I be better off using two link-belts? I would prefer to not remove the back gear, i.e. drive out the roll pin.

Anyway, I think I asked too many questions and still have more. Thanks in advance for any assistance.
Mike -
p.s. sorry for the rotated photo.
Attachments
Atlas.jpg
12" Atlas Commercial (3990) 12" Back Geared, Undermount, Screw Cutting Lathe with Quick Change Gear Box (6802), Universal Compound X-Y Vise (1614), Taper (6822), Milling (500A) and Grinding Attachments (10-450)
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Bill Shields
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Re: New member, looking for some guidance.

Post by Bill Shields »

Oil on gears is better than nothing but not much. It will not stay put.

Get a fiberous wheel bearing grease if nothing else..will not fly off the gears.

Way oil on the ways. If nothing else is available then chain saw bar lube will get you by.

Lathe should be level for everyone...even beginners. Cabinet does not need to be anchored to floor. Carpenters level pretty useless for this application except to get started.

Do not use SAE oil on a spindle. PAY THE $$ and get proper 10w spindle oil. Cost of oil should be the least of your concerns. Treat the machine with the respect it deserves
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
earlgo
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Location: NE Ohio

Re: New member, looking for some guidance.

Post by earlgo »

Hi miken:
My Atlas manual says SAE 20 for all the oil cups, and Keystone #122 gear lube. As Bill says, way oil for the ways and change the felt way wipers if they are hard. You can get new ones on e-bay for a nominal price.
The spacer for the milling cutter draw bar is .950" OD x 1.3" long. The chamfers on the end are .150" long tapering to .750" OD. I use a couple of washers between the wheel and the spacer just for convenience.
Mill handwheel
Mill handwheel
The lower half of the boring bar holder is a duplicate of the upper, BUT is only 1.1" tall and has the big bore for the center post all the way through. It also has dowel pin holes to match the upper. I frequently use shims under it to raise the bar cutting edge to the right height.
boring bar holder
boring bar holder
If you wish I can send a drawing, but not right now because it is set up to bore for 3/4-10 ACME threads. :( You can see the lube chart hanging on the wall behind the lathe. The shiny thing behind the boring bar holder is on the tool tray behind and not part of the holder.
Good luck, and I hope your 3990 is not as worn as my 3983. Ask more if you wish, but not about the QC box because I am stuck with the change gear version.
--earlgo
Before you do anything, you must do something else first. - Washington's principle.
KellyJones
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Location: Snohomish, WA

Re: New member, looking for some guidance.

Post by KellyJones »

The importance of the oil is directly proportional to how long you want the machine to last.

The spindle needs the light weight oil in order to ensure the lubricant flows around all the bearings and carries away heat and debris properly.

Way oils have a "tackifier" which causes them to stick to the metal surfaces, which in turn, keeps the lubricant in place longer. This is especially important for the vertical surfaces.

The gears will need grease. You can use oil, but then you will spend a lot of time oiling the gears as the oil is flung off them. I can't think of a reason why the wheel bearing grease Bill suggests wouldn't work.
Kelly Jones, PE
A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.
George Bernard Shaw
(1856-1950)
John Evans
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Re: New member, looking for some guidance.

Post by John Evans »

Use the link style belt from counter shaft to spindle ,save yourself a bunch of un-necessary work. Buy a gallon of "tractor fluid' ISO 32 ,this will work for everything but the ways. Available at Autozone-Walmart etc. Try the way oil on the gears I have a spray can of "Open gear lube" I use. I have had 4-5 Atlas 12" over the years and never seen any felts other than the ones in the spindle bearing cups.
www.chaski.com
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miken
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Location: Maine

Re: New member, looking for some guidance.

Post by miken »

Thanks for the replies, very much appreciated.

Bill, I will try to buy the right oil. I was trying to avoid buying gallons. From what I have read it looks like Mobile Vactra 2 is highly recommended for the way oil, and I was thinking of using the Mobile Velocite #6 (SAE 10) Spindle oil, or try to find the "tractor fluid ISO32" as suggested by John. As for the gears, would Lucas Oil Red and Tacky be a good choice? My manual does actually say "a small amount of S.A.E. No.30 oil "or" grease (we recommend Keystone No. 122 gear lubricant or equivalent) applied to gear teeth, will aid in obtaining smoother, more quiet operation.

earlgo, I think the gears are in decent shape for the age, the retaining collar on the lead screw end of the Quick Chage gear box must have loosened at one time and damaged the very end of that gear slightly. You can feel a bit of a bind when turning it by hand. I may try to file that gear before I start using the QCGB. Thank you for the draw bar collar/spacer dimensions. As for the boring bar, the one you are showing is not what I have. I think mine goes in a lantern style holder of some sort. Please see the third picture below.

I cleaned the way wipers but they are still a bit hard so I will look for those on ebay as suggested, or make my own, looks simple enough. I still need to find wicks for the Timkin bearing cups.

There isn't much of a gap between the drive belts and the inside of the gear case (please see the bottom picture). I am not so sure I can use a link-belt as I don't think they lay flat enough. Is there a recommended "lathe" supply store online where I may be able to find a matched set of belts?

A co-worker thinks he can find his old machinist level for me to use. If not I may try the plumb bob method and put the machinists level on the Xmas list.

Thanks for the help, it is really appreciated.
Mike -
Attachments
1a.jpg
2a.jpg
4a.jpg
5a.jpg
12" Atlas Commercial (3990) 12" Back Geared, Undermount, Screw Cutting Lathe with Quick Change Gear Box (6802), Universal Compound X-Y Vise (1614), Taper (6822), Milling (500A) and Grinding Attachments (10-450)
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NP317
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Re: New member, looking for some guidance.

Post by NP317 »

Vactra Way Oil is available by the gallon from Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/VACTRA-OIL-NO-2- ... 871&sr=8-2
RussN
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miken
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Location: Maine

Re: New member, looking for some guidance.

Post by miken »

NP317 wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:35 pm Vactra Way Oil is available by the gallon from Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/VACTRA-OIL-NO-2- ... 871&sr=8-2
RussN
Thanks RussN, sure wish we could still buy stuff in a real store. :D Still debating between Mobil Velocite #6 Spindle Oil, Mobile DTE 24 (ISO32), or "tractor fluid ISO32". It's basically all ISO32 correct?
12" Atlas Commercial (3990) 12" Back Geared, Undermount, Screw Cutting Lathe with Quick Change Gear Box (6802), Universal Compound X-Y Vise (1614), Taper (6822), Milling (500A) and Grinding Attachments (10-450)
Bob D.
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Re: New member, looking for some guidance.

Post by Bob D. »

Miken, whereabouts in Maine are you? If your close to Saco I could lend you a machinists level.
3/4" Juliet II 0-4-0
3/4" Purinton Mogul "Pogo"
3/4" Hall Class 10 wheeler
3/4" Evans Caribou/Buffalo 2-8-0
3/4" Sweet Violet 0-4-0
3/4" Hunslet 4-6-0
3/4" Kozo A3. Delayed construction project

1 1/2" A5 Camelback 0-4-0
armscor 1
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Re: New member, looking for some guidance.

Post by armscor 1 »

I use motor cycle chain lube for my change gears does not fling off and gives lasting lubrication.
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miken
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Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:56 am
Location: Maine

Re: New member, looking for some guidance.

Post by miken »

Bob D. wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:39 pm Miken, whereabouts in Maine are you? If your close to Saco I could lend you a machinists level.
Hi Bob and hello neighbor, I actually live in North Saco. Your offer is very kind and I would really appreciate that.

As a test I leveled the lathe the best I could by just using some wood shims (under the cabinet base) and a cheap carpenters level not expecting much to happen, but I do think it actually helped and reduced the little vibration I was feeling. So maybe its not the belts at all?

Thanks, Mike -
12" Atlas Commercial (3990) 12" Back Geared, Undermount, Screw Cutting Lathe with Quick Change Gear Box (6802), Universal Compound X-Y Vise (1614), Taper (6822), Milling (500A) and Grinding Attachments (10-450)
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miken
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Location: Maine

Re: New member, looking for some guidance.

Post by miken »

armscor 1 wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:02 am I use motor cycle chain lube for my change gears does not fling off and gives lasting lubrication.
I do have some Maxima Chain Wax, which by the way is the only lube I use on my ATV and dirt bike chains now. It is really good stuff, but it does leave a white, hard to remove residue which I don't think I would want on the lathe gears. What brand do you use?

Thanks, Mike -
12" Atlas Commercial (3990) 12" Back Geared, Undermount, Screw Cutting Lathe with Quick Change Gear Box (6802), Universal Compound X-Y Vise (1614), Taper (6822), Milling (500A) and Grinding Attachments (10-450)
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