Best way to fit a drill chuck arbor?

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liveaboard
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Best way to fit a drill chuck arbor?

Post by liveaboard »

What's the best way to fit a drill chuck arbor?
Hand push?
With grease?
With loctite?
Press?
Tap with a hammer?
Whack with a big hammer?*
Weld it with stick?*

Jacobs #6 cone
drill chuck and arbor mt2.jpg


*That's supposed to be funny
RSG
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Re: Best way to fit a drill chuck arbor?

Post by RSG »

I use my arbour press to seat the chuck, then set it in the mill and chuck up something like a center drill that is ground true. Then touch a DTI up to the side of it and tap the chuck with a plastic head hammer until I get most of the runout removed. Works great for my small chucks.
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pete
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Re: Best way to fit a drill chuck arbor?

Post by pete »

Spotlessly clean and degrease both the female & male tapers. Run the chuck jaws inside the chuck body until there a bit below the chuck face. Insert the Morse Taper into the machine spindle, place a piece of wood on the drill press or mill table to protect it. Warming the chuck up by placing it with the jacobs taper down on an old school incandescent light bulb for 5-10 minutes can help. Then use the mill or DP's down feed to press the two together. I've never had one separate doing it that way as long as there's no burrs or slight film of rust on the parts.
Last edited by pete on Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BadDog
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Re: Best way to fit a drill chuck arbor?

Post by BadDog »

I've followed the same procedure of surgically clean, but after placing the chuck firmly in place, bring the end of the arbor firmly down onto some soft material. I've used wood and aluminum. It doesn't take more than a solid thump, and inertia seating the chuck works quite well. And for any but small chucks running carbide drills, I don't much worry about runout. Good chucks and arbors have always been well within what I expect from a drill chuck, and haven't checked them in years of subsequent use.
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Re: Best way to fit a drill chuck arbor?

Post by liveaboard »

So; clean, dry, light bonk.
will do, thanks
RSG
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Re: Best way to fit a drill chuck arbor?

Post by RSG »

pete wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 6:22 pm Spotlessly clean and degrease both the female & male tapers. Run the chuck jaws inside the chuck body until there a bit below the chuck face. Insert the Morse Taper into the machine spindle, place a piece of wood on the drill press or mill table to protect it.
Great method, and I've done that but when I did that with my small chuck I still got the same amount of run out. I found the only way to remove it with the small hammer and DTI. The chuck isn't high precision mind you so maybe that's why. My larger chucks are integral shank units and have very minimal runout.
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Rich_Carlstedt
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Re: Best way to fit a drill chuck arbor?

Post by Rich_Carlstedt »

Pete's method is superb , so + 1

I would add one other " complicated" variable--- Live ----or----- Dead Arbor ----for those looking for perfection
Look at your picture of the chuck and arbor and realize you are dealing with 4 taper ground surfaces
The arbor's Long taper, the arbor's short Jacobs taper, the Drill Chuck Jacob's socket taper , and the Drill Chuck jaw tapers.
The chance that all 4 are perfect is slim, so you want them as close as possible and that means making the Jacob Taper match close.
First, mount the Arbor (ONLY) and check the taper top and bottom with a indicator . Mark the high reading with a marker
Put a Dowel Pin in the chuck jaws and snug mildly and then mount the chuck to the arbor gently ! ( no Force and Clean )
Indicate the pin ., and mark the chuck where the high spot is .
Compare the two markings.. then remove the chuck and rotate it 90, then 180, then 270 and recheck for high points.
Now mark the permanent location that give the least error and proceed as Pete pointed out.

There is one other suggestion for those doing precise work ( <.002 ? ) like using small reamers in critical holes where run out is a killer.
Mount your arbor in the tailstock , or spindle and do the indicator work mentioned above . For a CAT taper shown, you only have 2 choices,
but for many like tailstocks, find the most accurate location and mark it with nail polish ( hard Lacquer !) . My Tailstock arbors have white spots that are always at the top when mounting in the Lathe.

lesson learned.. Maybe 20 years ago I wanted a new Jacobs 16 N ball bearing Chuck . We used them at work and they were fabulous. Saw an add for one at a good price that said " Jacobs Chuck and R8 Arbor" - I bought it.
The brand new Chuck ran out .013" .. no way would I accept that.. and checking the Arbor's Jacobs taper, it was off .008".. then I looked real close and the "Arbor" was not a "Jacobs" . so i called the vendor and complained ( his ad said "Jacobs" ) and he replaced it immediately with a 'real" Jacobs Arbor
Runout was now less then .0005" ....Albrecht territory !
So Arbor quality is important , and if it is off that much, how do you know the tapers are accurate ?
Rich
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Re: Best way to fit a drill chuck arbor?

Post by Glenn Brooks »

I’ve come to believe that drill press precision depends more on wear and tear in the spindle and bearings, than on the tolerances inherent in the chuck and arbor. (If you have a reputable arbor and properly made chuck).

Couple of years ago my boy found me a nearly new 1939 Delta DP220 floor drill press for sale at an estate sale. It had been sitting nearly unused in a Boeing machinist’s home shop, since new! We bought it and measured run out at .001”. Simply amazing. My existing, identical, 1960’s delta Dp220 was a run out beater that had been used all its life in high use production and repair shops. So worn out! Run out on the spindle was over .010”. You could almost shake the quill by hand - poor thing.

All due to wear and tear in the quill assembly...

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Re: Best way to fit a drill chuck arbor?

Post by Inspector »

I guess I am a barbarian as I have always cleaned the arbor end and chuck socket with acetone or MEK, pushed them together by hand, held the Morse taper and hit it on a wood bench. The inertia of the chuck when the end of the Morse taper stops on the bench, seats it home.

Pete
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Re: Best way to fit a drill chuck arbor?

Post by pete »

Yep that seating of the chuck by driving the arbors small end down onto a bench top is old school and probably works just as well Pete so not barbaric at all. :-). A couple of my old machinist books even detail that method. And Rich raised an excellent point about arbor quality and some logical steps I hadn't thought of. Many thanks Rich. As he mentioned I've always bought brand name arbors. Like RSG said, the integral shank because of the way there made and finish ground between centers seem to be pretty good with any I've bought. I picked up 2 R8's and a MT 3 key less Albrecht clones from Glacern when they were a lot more reasonable. They average real close or are at what Albrecht advertises. They were a good deal at just over $100 each, but not with the prices they want now. In a commercial shop though my guess is they might not last or hold there precision as long. If the hole is important for location or size but still ok with just a drilled hole I don't even use a drill chuck. Driving larger drills in an ER collet makes and amazing difference in how the drill sounds and cuts. It's multiple times more rigid than even an Albrecht. And with reduced shank S & D shank drills I always use a collet. All this is for drilling in a mill, with a common consumer grade drill press I doubt you could really justify using a $400+ chuck.
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Re: Best way to fit a drill chuck arbor?

Post by whateg0 »

I just had the keyless grizzly chuck slip on the arbor in the mill last night driving a 2" hole saw in aluminum. Cleaned it all and checked for burrs before seating it by dropping it on a 2*4. There was some residue on both surfaces do I'm guessing it wasn't clean before it was assembled initially.
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Re: Best way to fit a drill chuck arbor?

Post by liveaboard »

I paid $30 or $40 for the 2 Rohm chucks in 40 cones for the mill, but one had a bent spindle (I was wondering why someone had 2 of them).
My drill is mt2, so is my lathe tailstock, but I have only 1 chuck. So I bought the arbor from Amazon, $15 as I recall.

I don't think of a drill as a precision tool; but I like whet Rich suggested, twist it around to find the best spot.
I like it because it's possibly a little extra precision in my price range; free!
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