Thin Parts In The Milling Vise

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Mr Ron
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Re: Thin Parts In The Milling Vise

Post by Mr Ron »

I have used double stick tape to hold small thin pieces to the table. You just have to take very light cuts with a sharp tool. The tape I use is Scotch VHB.
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pete
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Re: Thin Parts In The Milling Vise

Post by pete »

Depending on the accuracy needed, the double sided tape idea is even used in industry for some part holding. Every point I've ever read about doing so always mentions that off the shelf and usually called carpet tape from the Home Despot etc is a real poor substitute for the (of course) much more expensive industry and specifically designed for the task double sided tape. 3M is one manufacturer and last I checked at least MSC and McMaster Carr carried it. The few times I've tried that lesser quality carpet tape trick was mostly for polishing thin flat parts on a lathe face plate. Because of that carpet tapes depth and what it's made from there can be a bit of shifting of the part away from the cutting forces. It won't work with small and low surface area part sizes. It can work if those forces are kept low and with large enough parts. With any real thin and fragile parts you pretty much need to chemically de-bond your finished part from the tape instead of mechanically removing it. I've used old school lighter fluid and I suppose Acetone would be even better to do that.

Well outside the threads question, but something at least knowing about as machine tool trivia. There's also what are called Ice Chucks to hold, machine and then release thin, high surface area parts. Visualize something like a surface grinders magnetic chuck but instead it uses simple water and an electrically refrigerated top plate to freeze the part in place. My guess is many of the same tricks used on Surface Grinders like back fences, blocking the parts in place with additional plates or blocks would also get used sometimes with them when required.

Most wood workers consider common MDF as pretty flat and consistent for it's thickness. I've used it or even solid wood held in the mill vise, rotary planed in my mill so it's then true to the spindle to screw parts down to hold them. As long as the parts don't get distorted by the holding method and there locked down with more resistance than the machining forces that are generated you can use almost anything you can think up.
shootnride
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Re: Thin Parts In The Milling Vise

Post by shootnride »

Just thought I should provide a follow-up to this thread. I finally got a chance to work on making some clamps for my mill vise. I just did something similar to what Harold did with his. Seems to be working well.

Ted
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Harold_V
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Re: Thin Parts In The Milling Vise

Post by Harold_V »

Very nice, Ted. I really like the adjustable clamps and hope to make a few myself. Now to find the time!

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RSG
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Re: Thin Parts In The Milling Vise

Post by RSG »

Those clamps looks great!
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Conrad_R_Hoffman
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Re: Thin Parts In The Milling Vise

Post by Conrad_R_Hoffman »

Nice clamps! I often have to glue stuff and it's really handy to have a moderate temperature thermal adhesive that's not too difficult to remove. I keep a puck of all three varieties of this stuff around- https://aquabondtechnologies.com/home/

Only caution with any tape or adhesive is to take light cuts and always consider what will happen if the part comes loose. If you don't like the answer, don't do it!
Conrad

1947 Logan 211 Lathe, Grizzly G1006 mill/drill, Clausing DP,
Boyar-Schultz 612H surface grinder, Sunnen hone, import
bandsaw, lots of measurement stuff, cutters, clutter & stuff.


"May the root sum of the squares of the Forces be with you."
Mr Ron
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Re: Thin Parts In The Milling Vise

Post by Mr Ron »

shootnride wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 5:28 pm Just thought I should provide a follow-up to this thread. I finally got a chance to work on making some clamps for my mill vise. I just did something similar to what Harold did with his. Seems to be working well.

Ted
Nice clamps! I take it the white sheet is the piece you are milling, but what is the sheet sitting on, parallels?
Mr.Ron from South Mississippi
shootnride
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Re: Thin Parts In The Milling Vise

Post by shootnride »

Thanks for the kind words gentlemen. I did get a chance to use the clamps a couple of days ago and they worked out well.

Conrad: I haven't tried an adhesive like the one you posted the link to, but I have used the double sided tape for machining thin pieces on the lathe. My results were mostly ok, but the method always makes me nervous and sometimes it's very difficult to remove the machined part from the substrate without damaging it. I will look into the product you've recommended.

Ron: Yes, the piece in the vise is what I machined (.080 sheet metal). I think the other piece you are referring to is just a piece of 1/4" plywood with a couple of cleats on the bottom to fit the T-slots in the mill table. I just leave it there most of the time to set tools on while I'm working on the mill just to keep from putting more nicks on the table.

Ted
Some people raise the IQ of the room when they enter.........others when they leave.
shootnride
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Re: Thin Parts In The Milling Vise

Post by shootnride »

Conrad_R_Hoffman wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:14 am I keep a puck of all three varieties of this stuff around- https://aquabondtechnologies.com/home/
Conrad,
I looked the website and didn't find any information about how this product is used. Is it just rubbed onto the part to be machined ? Does it adhere as soon as it contacts the substrate ? I've never used a product like this so I really have no idea how it's used.
Thanks
Ted
Some people raise the IQ of the room when they enter.........others when they leave.
pete
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Re: Thin Parts In The Milling Vise

Post by pete »

I've used off the shelf double sided carpet tape for a few part holding jobs. While it can work, it's actual holding power isn't that great. Plus due to the tapes thickness it allows the parts to squirm around a bit even when the loads are well under where the part would be torn loose. I've not so far used it due to cost and how seldom I may need it, but 3M and I'd assume a few others make industrial rated double sided tape for this specific task. From the limited information I've seen about it being used, it's adhesive strength is supposed to be much higher than the hardware store carpet tape that's a lot easier to find. Personally I think the use of cyanoacrylate super glue is a much better and stronger method. It's just a modern, faster and better method of the old school shellac part holding trick watch makers and jewelers used. I'd also want to use a machined flat semi disposable metal substrate if your drilling through or profiling the full depth of the part.

With thinner parts and super glue or tape, all the recommendations I've seen mention using common acetone to chemically dissolve the adhesive instead of trying to pry the part loose. Super glues are fairly weak in shear so larger more durable parts can be broken loose with a shock load from a rubber, plastic or wooden mallet. There's also the old wood tuners trick of bonding the part to that substrate with a piece of paper between them. The paper splits as the part is knocked loose.

Well outside what most home shops might have access to because of there cost, but maybe worth adding. There's another method that's seldom mentioned on most machining forums since there pretty specialized. Freeze chucks, https://www.ctemag.com/news/articles/in ... ngraspable The whole idea works much like a surface grinders magnetic chuck, but freezing the part to the refrigerated chuck surface with a light spray of water is used instead. If you had enough thin delicate part holding, cobbling one together might not be that hard to do with some junkyard parts.
Conrad_R_Hoffman
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Re: Thin Parts In The Milling Vise

Post by Conrad_R_Hoffman »

shootnride wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:23 pm
Conrad_R_Hoffman wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:14 am I keep a puck of all three varieties of this stuff around- https://aquabondtechnologies.com/home/
Conrad,
I looked the website and didn't find any information about how this product is used. Is it just rubbed onto the part to be machined ? Does it adhere as soon as it contacts the substrate ? I've never used a product like this so I really have no idea how it's used.
Thanks
Ted
Think of it as high tech candle wax. You just heat things up to about 100C and melt it on.
Conrad

1947 Logan 211 Lathe, Grizzly G1006 mill/drill, Clausing DP,
Boyar-Schultz 612H surface grinder, Sunnen hone, import
bandsaw, lots of measurement stuff, cutters, clutter & stuff.


"May the root sum of the squares of the Forces be with you."
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