George T. Brown 1/2" scale trains

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Pontiacguy1
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George T. Brown 1/2" scale trains

Post by Pontiacguy1 »

Is anyone on this board familiar with George T. Brown of Los Angeles, California? Here is what I know about him: He lived in Los Angeles, and was a member of the LALS for a while. He had a Santa Fe F7 that he ran there. He has been dead for quite a long time now.

Reason for asking about him: At one time, George Brown had a very nice 1/2" to the foot scale 2 1/2" gauge railroad running around his house. He built several pairs of FT A and B unit diesel locomotives and probably 40 or more cars in that scale as well. I am in posession of an Unfinished FT A unit that he started, as well as about 4 cars that he built. Most of them have dates from the 1940s or 1950s on them. I understand that those dates may not actually represent when they were built, but that he was building in that scale around that time.

I would love to find out any information that anyone has about Mr. Brown, his models, his railroad, etc... I understand that he was a really great pattern maker and foundry man, and most of his models are made from aluminum or iron castings, including the FT body.

Any help would be appreciated. If you know of any of his family that survives, that would be great too.

Thanks.

Scott
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Re: George T. Brown 1/2" scale trains

Post by Postwarbob »

Scott I was raised in the Bay Area (San Leandro) . I remember meeting him at my cousins house next door and him showing me a trunk full of 1/2" cars he had built. He also showed me an album of pictures of his backyard layout. He invited my family to come see it but that never happened. I would love to have one of his cabooses for my 1/2" stable of live steam engines I have. Thanks for the post and I wish you luck getting more info.
Bob"......
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Re: George T. Brown 1/2" scale trains

Post by Pontiacguy1 »

I currently have the unfinished electric powered FT A unit, and four cars: Two tank cars, one gondola car, and a flat car. Each car needs some small amount of repair, but can easily be returned to full operating condition. I know that Marc Horovitz has about 5 cars from this collection, and a private collector from Ohio has a huge amount of his stuff. I have seen this collection, and he has 4 FT A units and at least one B unit that are finished, and probably about 20 cars from that collection. After examining the FTs, it seems that he built them to run in pairs: An FT A and B unit would have a drawbar between them, and wires that would connect them for better electrical pickup. These things are large, and very heavy. the bodies are all made from a series of aluminum castings. The cars are made in the same manner.

If there was anyone you could put me in touch with, that would be appreciated. I would love to see pictures of the original railroad, construction pictures, etc...

Thanks.
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Re: George T. Brown 1/2" scale trains

Post by timchilton1 »

I just came across this post while searching George T Brown.
I was looking for any photos etc.
I was his neighbor. I grew up across the street and was quite familiar with “Mr. Brown’s ( or Brownie as my dad called him) trains.
We kids use to watch him make molds for the parts he was making out of wet sand.
He often repaired the train cars and Locomotives for L.A.’s Griffith Parks Railway.
Sometimes I would help him put the cars and locomotives in and out of his truck.
He would occasionally have open houses in the sixties and seventies and show off his backyard railroad.
It was very cool. A fond memory.
If anyone has any photos I like to see them.
Thanks,
Tim Chilton
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Re: George T. Brown 1/2" scale trains

Post by Pontiacguy1 »

You and me both! I would love to see some photos too.

I still haven't finished the Brown FT A unit that I have, but I have repaired a couple of the cars, putting them back into operational condition. It sounds like it was a really neat setup. From what I have seen, he would make patterns, then would cast up a bunch of parts from Aluminum to make cars and locomotives. He would make a run of those, and would then assemble and paint them. All of the stuff I have is made from aluminum castings, and they are quite good, too. The tank car tanks weren't aluminum, and the top of the gondola was 1/8" plywood, but the rest of the bodies were aluminum castings bolted together.

I have two George Brown tank cars, one Gondola car, and one flat car. I also have the parts for the FT. That's the extent of what I have from him. I would love to have some pictures and a little bit more information about Mr. Brown and his back yard railroad. You can see at the beginning of this thread that I started asking about this stuff about 9 or so years ago, and nobody has had any real information for me. My original intent was to write a short article about Mr. Brown and his railroad, but I don't really have much information to go on, certainly not enough to do an article. I did get a few leads on people to contact and ask, but they all turned out to be dead ends. Some had moved or the contact information was no longer correct, and some had died. I even contacted Marc Horovitz to ask if he had any leads on information, which sadly he did not. He has since sold his few cars and one short signal which he said had 'golden bear lines' cast into the side of it. Sold them to another collector back a few years ago.

As far as I know, the collector in Ohio still has all of his stuff. He has a collection of about 30 or so 1/2" scale cars and at least 3 FT A units and at least one B unit. He also had a Magnus SW series unit in 1/2" scale 2 1/2" gauge, and a couple of pieces made by a custom builder. Quite an extensive collection, probably most was from Mr. Brown's estate. I haven't talked to him in several years now.
George B tank Cars 1b.jpg
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Re: George T. Brown 1/2" scale trains

Post by Mberentsen1 »

George Brown was my great grandfather. I grew up playing with these trains. I know my uncle Allan took the trains when George passed. Unfortunately, my uncle is also deceased. Not sure who got them after him but I might be able to find out
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Re: George T. Brown 1/2" scale trains

Post by Pontiacguy1 »

I would love to find out more. I remember that the collector in Ohio said that he was searching on Ebay for large scale trains at some point in the late 1990s or maybe around 2000, and came across an FT A-B unit for sale. He contacted the seller and asked if they had any more stuff in that scale/Gauge and they said yes. He asked for some indication of what they had and what they would take for all of it. I don't remember what he said he paid for it, but he said it came in a big wooden crate that they set in the bed of his truck. All the stuff described earlier in this thread from Mr. Brown was in there, including a few unfinished pieces and some broken items and a few spare parts. He doesn't remember who he bought the stuff from. He said that he thought that a lot of the collection had either been given away or sold previous to his purchase, and he feels like he 'got what was left' from it all.

Only items that I definitely know about from that Collection: (1) Marc Horovitz (former editor of Garden Railways Magazine) had 5 George brown cars, including a caboose, and one short line side signal. This has since been sold to a 2 1/2" gauge collector in Utah. (2) Collector in Ohio that has an extensive collection of Gauge 3 (2 1/2" gauge) electric train models, including a huge number of George Brown pieces (3) My own small collection of 1 FT A unit and 4 cars that he built that was originally part of the Ohio collection.
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Bill Shields
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Re: George T. Brown 1/2" scale trains

Post by Bill Shields »

1/2" ridable live steam is more fun than a barrel of monkeys.

What powered these FTs you are describing? Are they ridable?
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
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Re: George T. Brown 1/2" scale trains

Post by Glenn Brooks »

Fascinating bit of history you are bringing together in this thread. By all accounts, 2 1/2” gauge was widely popular in the 1890’s thru maybe 1930ish. Seems safe to say this gauge was/is the forerunner of the live steam hobby as we know it today. There are a couple of folk on the forum who have 2.5” scale steam engines who may be able to offer more specific detail than I. I do know Mr. Albert Campbell, the fellow who built my 12 5/8” gauge 4-4-0 in 1904, and widely considered to be one of the founders of the live steam movement, sold a large number of 2 1/2” gauge steam engine casting kits around the country from around 1895 through maybe 1910 - possibly between 75 and 100 1/2” kits during that time.

Glenn
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Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

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Bill Shields
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Re: George T. Brown 1/2" scale trains

Post by Bill Shields »

I have a 2.5" gauge steamer (a gift) and have 2 local tracks where I can run.

As I said...more fun than a barrel of monkeys.
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
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Re: George T. Brown 1/2" scale trains

Post by Pontiacguy1 »

Yes, Glenn, you are correct that the hobby of running and riding live steam locomotives by the average person got started pretty much with 2 1/2" inch gauge steam, especially in this country. The heyday of 2 1/2" gauge was the 1920s through the 1940s. Vic Shattock on the west coast and Carl Purinton on the east coast both originally were builders in 1/2" scale 2 1/2" gauge, and this spread to others. During those years it was the most popular live steam scale/gauge to build in. It is considered both the largest of the scenic scales, where realism of the surroundings are important, and is the smallest scale that can be ridden and run by the operator using an elevated track. I know, someone will talk about somebody who rode behind their O scale steamer, and I have heard of smaller scales being ridden before, but that is very much an exception and not at all common. 1/2" scale is considered to be the smallest scale/gauge that can effectively be driven by the operator as a normal operational method. Some people build theirs only for scenic use, not to be ridden/driven, and that is usually referred to as 'Gauge 3'. If you plan to run and ride yours, then it is usually referred to as 2 1/2" gauge. At least that is the way I've always heard it referred to. Sometimes they can overlap each other and I know that some of the locomotives were effectively used for both scenarios.

The FT A-unit that I have is built just like all the other George Brown FT units that I saw at the collector in Ohio. All of his stuff is made from aluminum castings bolted together. The trucks don't look like EMD Blomberg style trucks, they look a lot more like an Alco truck or a switcher truck. Only one truck is powered on each locomotive, whether an A unit or a B unit. They have some weights over the powered truck to increase traction. These were originally 3 rail electric units. They were basically built just like a Lionel set, just doubled in size (1:48 for Lionel, 1:24 for 1/2" scale). At some point, Mr. Brown converted everything to 2 rail electric operation and removed the 3rd rail. The locomotive that I have is designed to pick up current from the left rail on one truck, and from the right rail on the other truck. Just like the prototype FT units, Mr. Brown built these in A-B sets with drawbars and electrical connections between them. Thus, you would have 2 trucks picking up power from each rail. The motor is some type of AC/DC universal motor that uses a wheatstone bridge. You can tell that it ran off of AC power at one point. The motor and truck on mine works, and if you feed it DC current it will run back and forth on a short piece of 2 1/2" gauge track that I have. These were not built to be ridden behind, but were basically part of a large garden railway that Mr. Brown had in his yard. He must have been a tremendous scratch-builder, pattern maker, and machinist, because I have seen these FT A-B units, flat cars, tank cars, gondola cars, and a couple of cabooses, all built by him using these same methods. I know there were at least 4 sets of these A-B units built and probably at least 40 cars. Wonder what all I haven't seen that he built.
FT (4 June 2010) 014b.jpg
FT (4 June 2010) 015b.jpg
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Re: George T. Brown 1/2" scale trains

Post by Pontiacguy1 »

Eventually I plan on making this FT A unit operational again, but utilizing battery power and remote control. In this set of pictures you can see the top of the powered truck. The motor was supported on the back end by a plate that it could slide sideways on as it went through switches and around curves. I think it would be fairly easy to power this thing with a couple of 12-volt sealed gel batteries and something like a Syren 10 controller. I'm definitely not an electrical guru, so would get someone more knowledgeable than myself to help with integrating all of it.

They weren't terribly fast, at least my motor unit isn't. It's geared more for power, but is more than fast enough for prototype operations. I am just guessing that one of these locomotives was built to be able to handle 5 to 6 cars on fairly level track, so an A-B unit should probably handle 10 to 12 or so. I really don't think it would have enough power to pull a person along, but I could be wrong about that.

Here is another couple of photos:
IMG_0818b.jpg
FT (4 June 2010) 035b.jpg
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