A battery-powered "diesel" in 1:1 scale

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Greg_Lewis
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A battery-powered "diesel" in 1:1 scale

Post by Greg_Lewis »

Here it is. "Dramatically more powerful."

I do get annoyed, however, when folks refer to anything on rails as a "train." I've even seen whole railroads — the complete business entity — referred to as "the train." Anyway, here's the story:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... SApp_Other
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Steggy
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Re: A battery-powered "diesel" in 1:1 scale

Post by Steggy »

Greg_Lewis wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:19 pmHere it is. "Dramatically more powerful."

Definitely a case of marketing hyperbole. I wonder how a railroad using this dubious bit of technology will cope when the train is on ascending grade, the motive power peters out due to discharged batteries and the mainline is blocked.

I do get annoyed, however, when folks refer to anything on rails as a "train." I've even seen whole railroads — the complete business entity — referred to as "the train."

It was written by a "journalist." It's been my experience most of them don't know their posteriors from a toilet seat when it comes to technology. When I read this kind of reporting written by someone who, as you noted, doesn't know the difference between a locomotive and a train, I too get annoyed and downgrade their credibility. If they couldn't take the time to use the correct terminology in their story, why would anyone believe they took the time to get the facts straight.

From the article:

Wabtec, the Pittsburgh-based rail freight company, showed off its locomotive at Carnegie Mellon University as part of a new venture between the two organizations to develop zero emissions technology to help move the 1.7bn tons of goods that are shipped on American railroads each year.

There is no such a thing as "zero emissions" technology.

In the case of a locomotive powered by batteries or a catenary, the emissions are coming out of the generating station whose electrical output charges the battery or energizes the catenary. If said generating station burns a fuel to run the generators its emissions are going into the atmosphere in one form or another, same as in the case of a Diesel-electric locomotive. All that will have been accomplished is moving the generating station from the locomotive to a fixed location that might be in your neighborhood.

If the generating station is nuclear, the "emissions" will be in the form of radioactive waste—or perhaps a Three Mile Island type of incident. Even if handled safely and not exposed to the atmosphere, that waste has to be stored somewhere. That too is probably not something you'd want in your neighborhood.
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rmac
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Re: A battery-powered "diesel" in 1:1 scale

Post by rmac »

BDD wrote: There is no such a thing as "zero emissions" technology.
Solar? Kinda sorta, after you've emitted all the emissions necessary to build the equipment?

-- Russell Mac
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Re: A battery-powered "diesel" in 1:1 scale

Post by Steggy »

rmac wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:29 pm
BDD wrote: There is no such a thing as "zero emissions" technology.

Solar? Kinda sorta, after you've emitted all the emissions necessary to build the equipment?

Yep! It takes energy to make energy, a process that always negatively affects the environment in some fashion. More energy is required to get the energy from where it's produced to where it's used, which always incurs losses.

Some methods of generating electricity promise much more than they deliver. Focusing specifically on two so-called "green" energy sources, solar and wind, neither has proved to date to be very practical on a large scale. Both require the use of a huge amount of land on which to install equipment in a sufficient amount to be able to generate electricity at economical levels. Neither is 100 percent reliable. If the sun doesn't shine the solar panels produce no juice and if the wind doesn't blow the windmills do nothing as well.

Speaking of wind generation, there is a large wind turbine farm east of Streator IL, the Blackstone Wind Farm III, that has windmills spread out over about 30 square miles. The turbines' combined output—when the wind obliges—is listed as 200 megawatts, about one-third the output of a modern fossil-fueled generating station. You could fit upwards of five 600 megawatt generating stations on the same land, producing about 15 times as much energy—regardless of the state of the wind.

If we're going to go whole-hog on electrically-powered vehicles we're going to need generating and distribution capacity far beyond what we have now. A single long-haul freight train uses the equivalent of 18-20 megawatts when running at full throttle. Multiply that by the number of freights running at any given time and you'll start to get a sense of the enormity of what is being proposed. The investment would be staggering and ultimately of questionable value, in my opinion.
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NP317
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Re: A battery-powered "diesel" in 1:1 scale

Post by NP317 »

I favor two energy producing solutions:
1) Fusion (On the horizon),
2) Vastly decreasing the number of humans on our planet.

And both seem to be in process now...

I think I will go build more steam stuff.
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Re: A battery-powered "diesel" in 1:1 scale

Post by Steggy »

NP317 wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:23 am I favor two energy producing solutions:
1) Fusion (On the horizon),
2) Vastly decreasing the number of humans on our planet.

I'll take option #2, Alex. :D

And both seem to be in process now...

Fusion may hold a lot of promise, but significant technical hurdles still have to be leaped to bring fusion generating stations on line. Then there are the political issues; say "fusion" around the anti-nuclear crowd and all they can think of is "hydrogen bomb." Work on building a practical fusion reactor has been going on since the 1940s. I'd be amazed if such a reactor went on line in my lifetime.
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milwiron
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Re: A battery-powered "diesel" in 1:1 scale

Post by milwiron »

Coal, propane, fusion... I still haven't decided with my current build.
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Re: A battery-powered "diesel" in 1:1 scale

Post by Steggy »

milwiron wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:18 pmCoal, propane, fusion... I still haven't decided with my current build.

How about a hydrogen peroxide catalyst engine? I recall in the 1980s when these first started to appear in dragsters. They were in four-second territory well before the top fuelers were.
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Glenn Brooks
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Re: A battery-powered "diesel" in 1:1 scale

Post by Glenn Brooks »

Actually, seems like this idea is quite encouraging. Hydrogen is the most abundant fuel source on the plant. And almost completely underutilized. Fuel cells make perfect sense when the platform is large enuf to accommodate the equipment. So powered slugs and of course fixed fuel cell, solar, and wind recharging facilities plants at or near rail yards would be a natural for replacing diesel hogs. And renewable emissions are no where near as plentiful or destructive as that from coal, oil, or gas generating plants.

Certainly, we are all in the early innings of this transition. Time to buy some lithium stock and buckle up for a wild ride!

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