Remote Control thoughts

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Gra2472
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Re: Remote Control thoughts

Post by Gra2472 » Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:38 pm

A kill switch is something that I am working on. I’d like for it to be automatic. There are fail safe chips available for rc that are inexpensive, but I’m not sure how they work. I’m leaning towards a relay cutoff that de-energizes the traction motors if the receiver loses power. I’m not sure how to cut off power on signal loss only. The controller I’m using goes to zero on signal loss, but a major pwm malfunction is a question mark. I think with modern technology though the likelihood of a pwm malfunction is extremely unlikely. Interesting question though.
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Gra2472
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Re: Remote Control thoughts

Post by Gra2472 » Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:40 pm

Bill

Great discussion. I think we can agree that “traditional” non-spectrum RC is unsuitable for riding scale trains. Yes?
7.5" Allen Mogul
3 x 7.5" West Valley Baldwin Westinghouse Electrics
The Mrs. wants her railroad around the house!
G. Augustus
Monte Rio, Ca.

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NP317
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Re: Remote Control thoughts

Post by NP317 » Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:01 am

For controlling ANY remotely operated machine I would ONLY use a spread spectrum R/C system.
The survival of my scale RC aircraft have successfully depended on those radio systems.
And the overseeing US federal agencies agree that the spread spectrum systems are secure. The US military have used them for years.
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cbrew
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Re: Remote Control thoughts

Post by cbrew » Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:28 am

wow,, interesting thread to say the least,
I will put my two cents in,
using radios that are intended for RC cars (or planes) really do not mate up well with Ride on trains.
I looked, tried and shelved that idea..
I do have a large locomotive that is radio controlled.
100% electric, I am using the Airwire system that is designed for garden scale.
it has all the safety features you need, plus i added two more.
1) shutdown on transmission signal failure (check)
2) traction motor cut in/out controlled by the transmitter, this allows the operator to turn on and off the power to the motor controller AND it will also open and close double pole double throw relays at the motors.
3) a pressure switch that monitors the train pipe pressure. if the pressure drops below 10psi. it cuts the signal to the controllers, applying full dynamics at the same time. this helps with anything happens that pull the glad hands apart.. This also allows the conductor to stop the train if he/she sees something unsafe using the dump valve at the back of the train.
The motor controller i am using in my locomotive is a Sevcon, this setup will work for 4qd and the syren.
I to have a distrust for RC, hell, I have a distrust for someone that may not be up to the task of operating in a safe manor. (steam, gas or electric)
there are a couple good systems on the market that have all these safe features built into the system,
I have talked to a couple different person that have build systems from the ground up.. its real easy to get something to work well (and safe) 80% of the time. it gets harder to design and write software to account for the 80% to 95% safety factor and is it damn near impossible to design and write software to reach the 95% to 98% mark and is impossible to reach 100%

because of that, this is way i designed redundant safety features into my system.

(if any of this is hard to read, sorry, working on 4 hours of sleep and still on my first cup of coffee)
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John Hasler
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Re: Remote Control thoughts

Post by John Hasler » Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:03 am

Bill is right. There are channels in the 72Mhz band reserved for model aircraft.

I don't think any of the inexpensive hobby rc systems are suitable for controlling anything as large as a riding-scale locomotive, though (at least not without a lot of modification). They are not reliable enough and lack adequate safety features.

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cbrew
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Re: Remote Control thoughts

Post by cbrew » Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:50 am

John Hasler wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:03 am
Bill is right. There are channels in the 72Mhz band reserved for model aircraft.

I don't think any of the inexpensive hobby rc systems are suitable for controlling anything as large as a riding-scale locomotive, though (at least not without a lot of modification). They are not reliable enough and lack adequate safety features.
can you even buy the old analog 72 mhz hardware. seems like everything is 2.4 ghz spread spectrum systems now
If it is not live steam. its not worth it.

jcbrock
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Re: Remote Control thoughts

Post by jcbrock » Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:18 am

There was a system made by a company called (iirc) Integral Circuits that is pretty impressive but not currently marketed. It has two failsafes - distance from the train and an accelerometer in the handheld so if you fell or dropped the controller the train would stop. I'm hoping they return to market at some point.
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cbrew
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Re: Remote Control thoughts

Post by cbrew » Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:48 am

jcbrock wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:18 am
There was a system made by a company called (iirc) Integral Circuits that is pretty impressive but not currently marketed. It has two failsafes - distance from the train and an accelerometer in the handheld so if you fell or dropped the controller the train would stop. I'm hoping they return to market at some point.
IM not sure why, but Laura seems to have pulled her product from the market.
If it is not live steam. its not worth it.

jcbrock
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Re: Remote Control thoughts

Post by jcbrock » Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:53 am

cbrew wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:48 am
IM not sure why, but Laura seems to have pulled her product from the market.
I know she's working on improvements to current units, so I am hoping it is just a pause until a new, improved version is available.
John Brock

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cbrew
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Re: Remote Control thoughts

Post by cbrew » Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:23 pm

jcbrock wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:53 am
cbrew wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:48 am
IM not sure why, but Laura seems to have pulled her product from the market.
I know she's working on improvements to current units, so I am hoping it is just a pause until a new, improved version is available.
I know David Newell has a custom solution in the works also.
If it is not live steam. its not worth it.

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BigDumbDinosaur
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Re: Remote Control thoughts

Post by BigDumbDinosaur » Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:25 pm

NP317 wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:01 am
For controlling ANY remotely operated machine I would ONLY use a spread spectrum R/C system.
The survival of my scale RC aircraft have successfully depended on those radio systems.
And the overseeing US federal agencies agree that the spread spectrum systems are secure. The US military have used them for years.
RussN
Fun fact: the actress Hedy Lamarr is listed as co-inventor of a frequency-hopping, spread-spectrum scheme intended to be utilized with radio-controlled torpedoes (she used her married name, Hedy Kiesler Markey, on the patent application). At the time, the US Navy would not use the system because it was developed by an Austrian citizen (Lamarr). Years later, the patent was "re-discovered" by the Navy and found use during the Cuban missile crisis of the early 1960s. Modern spread-spectrum technology is based upon this patent.
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Bill Shields
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Re: Remote Control thoughts

Post by Bill Shields » Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:41 pm

Yes the 72 mhz radios are still sold and used by many fliers.

You should see what FANUC sells for controlling full size locos if you want an education
Too many things going on to bother listing them.

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