"Modeling"/"Weathering" Live Steam Rail and Ties

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Rob Gardner
Posts: 463
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:27 am
Location: Newbury, OH

"Modeling"/"Weathering" Live Steam Rail and Ties

Post by Rob Gardner »

I'm getting very close to starting construction of a 1" scale, 4-3/4" gauge track at my house. I must have a lot of time on my hands as I have found myself contemplating 1. Staining the ground-contact-treated ties to a dark color to simulate creosote and 2. Priming and painting the new aluminum rail to give it a grimy, weathered patina look like most rail in the real world looks like. Has anyone here tried either or both of these ideas?

Regarding the staining of ties, most of my track will be in the shade with little if any direct UV exposure. I do realize that stain won't last forever and my thought was to dip batches of cut ties in the stain. Another angle I was considering was to dip the treated lumber ties in a used motor oil/kerosene solution though this will be messy to handle and not sure if the mess will yield enough or any benefit to lengthen the life of the ties.

For painting/weathering the rail, I'm expecting that I'd need to fully degrease the rail first, then apply 1 or 2 coats of self etching primer followed by a coat of two of appropriate darker paint.

Thanks,

Rob Gardner
RONALD
Posts: 754
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 7:27 am

Re: "Modeling"/"Weathering" Live Steam Rail and Ties

Post by RONALD »

Many decades ago we tried a sample track.

It was ~ 60 feet of aluminum rail with wood ties cut to scale, and treated with what was available in those early 60's.

We used pea gravel for ballast, looked good, but when we finally got back to actually building the RR in the late 90's we went a different route, by the 90's all that was left of the sample was the rail .

For ties we use fully treated 2"x4"s, steel rail, and stainless steel screws, ballast is CM6 Grade 9 road gravel.

The steel rail is painted with Rust-Oleum Series 5200 primer and Chestnut acrylic paint: https://www.rustoleum.com/product-catal ... tm-acrylic

What little aluminum rail we have used is also painted the same way.

Those CCA treated 2"x4"s are left to age naturally.

Below are just a couple of photos showing the track and ballast.

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STRR
Posts: 469
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 9:01 pm
Location: Westminster, CO

Re: "Modeling"/"Weathering" Live Steam Rail and Ties

Post by STRR »

Rob,

Your idea of used motor oil and kerosene is a good idea IF you are using normal wood but NOT if you are using pressure-treated. The pressure treatment of today is almost all water-based. That's why the boards feel wet when newly purchased and warp/twist all to heck when they dry. I had thought about making my own "creosote" treatment by dissolving roofing tar in a solvent such as diesel, kerosene, gasoline, or whatever. Then dipping/soaking ties in the solution. I was researching using a vacuum/pressure chamber to alternately vacuum the chamber to remove air bubbles from the wood, then pressurize it to force the treatment into the wood. Thinking along the lines of roofing tar becoming hard/dry, I was hoping the handling portion of the process would be somewhat cleaner/easier. I thought about "drying" them over a catch pan of some sort then recycling the drippings back into the treatment product.

Whatever stain you choose, make sure it is water compatible. You can check with the vendor as to what type of pressure treatment they sell then go online to see what components are in that particular brand. Then you will know what type of carrier is/was used to apply the treatment.

Good Luck,
Terry
Pontiacguy1
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:15 am
Location: Tennessee, USA

Re: "Modeling"/"Weathering" Live Steam Rail and Ties

Post by Pontiacguy1 »

I had thought about making my own "creosote" treatment by dissolving roofing tar in a solvent such as diesel, kerosene, gasoline, or whatever.
I wouldn't recommend you do that, based on our experience at Mid-South. We had a member who treated our own cut ties that way for several years. They would be submerged in a diesel fuel/roof tar mixture and boiled. Then periodically, one would be taken out and cut in half to determine how deep the mixture penetrated. They would stay in there until the sample cut in half showed that the mixture had penetrated all the way through. Then they would be stacked to dry and then made up into panels and installed. We used un-treated pine 2x6 boards, cut in half and then cut to length.

They worked great for a few years... then once the diesel fuel/tar mixture worked it's way out of the ties, they would start crumbling and falling apart. You might have a better method, but we completely quit using them and switched over to double-pressure treated 2x6s. those others just didn't hold up the way we hoped and thought they would, and some large sections of track that had only been down for 4 or 5 years had to be taken out and re-laid because of the ties going away that quickly. Seemed like once the diesel mixture leached out, the ties deteriorated rapidly. Whatever we were doing, it wasn't increasing the life of them all that much, if at all.

That's our experience. Your mileage may vary.
Andy R
Posts: 441
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:18 pm
Location: So. Calif.

Oil treatment of" Live Steam Ties

Post by Andy R »

I'll second what Pontiacguy1 wrote, based upon replacing many thousands of similarly treated ties at LALS and OCME.

At both clubs many of the wood ties were just a tie-shaped stain on the surface with no remaining wood underneath.

The naturally occurring bacteria in soil LOVE, absolutely LOVE, motor oil as food. They will consume the oil and wood very rapidly. If a little water is available, and a little aeration, they will multiply faster and your oil-soaked ties will disappear even faster.

That's how many shallow polluted sites are remediated - they plow concentrated bacteria into the soil, then water and disc -and soon the site is cleaned up.
rkcarguy
Posts: 1730
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am
Location: Wa State

Re: "Modeling"/"Weathering" Live Steam Rail and Ties

Post by rkcarguy »

I mixed up a solution of a bunch of free leftover oil based wood stains (which invariably and handily end up some shade of brown), a quart of black Rustoleum enamel paint, and a couple gallons of linseed oil. Added about a half gallon of mineral spirits to thin it a little and it totaled up about 4 gallons of product. According to some, you can add up to 20% used motor oil to this mixture as well as non-fiber roofing tar, but I am adjacent to wetlands so I chose not to. I then submerge the ties in the bucket and leave them in there for about 10-15 mins. The linseed oil soaks in and polymerizes the wood, that's the key to a lasting finish. Without it, the oils will quickly evaporate or be leeched out by rain. I left a test piece floating in water for 5 weeks and it had no sign of water intrusion. I think that installed on a clear gravel bed, they will provide many years of service. It's also easy enough to load up a sprayer every few years and renew the finish, but keep in mind you won't get any more on the bottom of the ties. Obviously if you have the $$$, go with treated or plastic ties.
Glenn Brooks
Posts: 2930
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: "Modeling"/"Weathering" Live Steam Rail and Ties

Post by Glenn Brooks »

FWIW category, back in the days when wood fishing boats were prevalent in the Alaska commercial fishing industry, a common treatment to prevent wood rot was to paint the bilges with diluted anti freeze. The anti freeze killed the dry rot spore. One could also soak end grain to achieve the same result. Also, You can still find a modern day version of Cuprinol, aka wood preserver, in the local hardware stores.

However, here in the Northwest, aka the rainiest place on earth, I’ve found the best treatment is simply bed the ties in properly drained gravel. Ballast really does an excellent job of aerating the tie and draining away ground water, particularly during the winter Rainey season. The main thing is don’t bury the ties directly in the soil.

Glenn
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Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

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