Building a small loop around the house?

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apm
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Building a small loop around the house?

Post by apm »

My wife's been asking me to build a small loop of 7.25" gauge track around the house for the kids to enjoy. I have a large RMI forney that I built which would run on the line so I I would need somewhat substantial track work to support a big engine like that.

The house is all grass yard and I don't want to fill the whole yard with properly balasted track that makes lawn mowing a major pain in the butt or creates an issue for any potential future home buyer. The ground is reasonably flat but I would likely need to smooth out some segments.

Has anyone ever come up with a somewhat non invasive track scheme that works for such a low speed around the house train line?

Would a welded bar stock rail system that stayed low profile enough to avoid the lawnmower work? Or are there no good shortcuts for a simple loop around the house?

Anyone have any examples of doing similar?
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Erskine Tramway
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Re: Building a small loop around the house?

Post by Erskine Tramway »

Sir Arthur Heywood did some track on the Eaton Railway down level with the grass. The size is larger, but the principle was the same. Unless you're building on sand, you'll need the drainage.
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Mike
Former Locomotive Engineer and Designer, Sandley Light Railway Equipment Works, Inc. and Riverside & Great Northern Railway 1962-77
BN RR Locomotive Engineer 1977-2014, Retired
apm
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Re: Building a small loop around the house?

Post by apm »

Mike that's still a little more invasive than I would want on my little property.

After a little more googling on the topic I came across the following video on YouTube. What do you guys think about the long term ability of this to last?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MWhndFE9fd0

No drainage included but I am not sure the ground is that wet on my property. I wonder how well it would work with a heavier locomotive like mine? Other thing to figure out is how tight off a turn radius my engine can make it around. Unlike a lot of the Forney style locomotives I built mine with a floating trailing truck to help it go around sharper turns but I still wonder what the limit is as I have a tree and a shed to get around.

When I started the engine 15yrs ago, the town I lived in had a track. Now living over an hour away from the nearest club I am quickly wishing I got into steam traction instead! We've got a lot more track for those types of engines to run on here than mine!
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Atkinson_Railroad
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Re: Building a small loop around the house?

Post by Atkinson_Railroad »

Okay, I'll take a stab at this post. (Mostly because I'm tired of hanging drywall ; )

To paraphrase a retired BNSF track engineer, the three most important elements in good track placement
are #1 Drainage, 2# Drainage and #3 Drainage.

I don't have a lot of experience setting up outdoor "ride on" tracks for I only started doing it around 1974 at 14-years old.

After having set up trackage in a multitude of locations since then, including right down the middle of public sidewalks,
the only thing I can say is... a job started right is half finished. (My dad use to say that so I'm stealing the phrase from him; )

Arbitrarily plopping miniature railroad track upon the earth without a support system will equate into one's own personal disappointment.

Nature will take over your railroad effort fairly quickly. Never mind the "pain" of lawn mowing maintenance around the rails;
you will have the pain of knowing you did not put thinking into your effort, and it will show as your mowing season progresses.
Your lawn might look spectacular, but your track will look... wellllll... el. Let's just say, it won't look good.

Miniature railroad tracks sit dormant for days, weeks, months, and even years. So, you have to consider that for a moment.
A kids attention span for something novel last for about a day. Okay, maybe a lifetime in certain circumstances, but that's a rare thing.

You have somewhat answered your own question when describing the large equipment you have constructed.
It would need substantial support for the engine to navigate on a set of rails.

I'd listen to your own advice.

It takes about three days of work to equal 4 hours of enjoyment. (If you are doing all the work yourself.)

Other "Master Railroaders" may chime in... for I'm still an apprentice.

In the end, it's your railroad. Construct it the way you want and have the means to do.
That's really what counts.

John
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FLSTEAM
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Re: Building a small loop around the house?

Post by FLSTEAM »

I agree with John. I have a dog bone layout with about 1500' of track (3000' of ride) and if I had to do it over again, I wouldn't. Too much maintenance. But if you are still a young buck and don't mind the work go for it.

BTW my track is on a bed liner (plastic) and ballast with wood ties. Holds my half ton Shay with no problems.

John B
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Re: Building a small loop around the house?

Post by rkcarguy »

I think done properly, it could be low maintenance and set low enough you could mow over it. But done properly, is the key. You'd need to dig out the ROW and lay in a good layer of pit run, weed cloth, and then some ballast. Lay your track on plastic ties, and then ballast again. (I'd use 3/8" clear gravel). At your low spots, lay in some drain rock for "french drains" if possible to drain water away from the track.

Renting a little Kubota with a backhoe attachment will make short work of the project, and save many hours of back breaking digging. Have your local concrete and gravel place drop a pile of pit run and a pile of gravel to feed from.

Our neighbors kids (3) have one of those power wheels trucks, and they use that things constantly and run laps and laps around their yard fighting over it until the battery dies. Ultimately it will depend on your kids, but it could be good for hours of entertainment many days a week.
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Re: Building a small loop around the house?

Post by apm »

Thanks for the replies so far. Yet watching the videos that I found on YouTube (and he has quite a few more of them) he makes that temporary track system look like a lot of fun and very easy. So what am I missing part of me thinks it can't be any good and the other half says it sure seems to work well in those videos.

I can understand the need for good drainage when it comes to wooden tires on track that is subject to freeze/thaw but would it have the same level of importance on the welded hot rolled steel construction seen in that video?

My property really doesn't make much sense for a railroad as it is a small square suburban type plot with 0.3 acres however a small temporary loop for when the kids are a little older (presently they're 1 and 3yrs) could be a lot of fun if it didn't mean forever disturbing the whole yard, add to that the benefit of having something portable could also be

Since I finished the engine right before the first was born (and freetime plummeted) it's still somewhat of a running work in progress. It would also be nice to have a test track located right next to my shop.
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Re: Building a small loop around the house?

Post by tomc »

If you are a welder, buy some flat bar and weld up a few sections and see what you can do. With steel ties and rail, drainage isnt a problem as with wood ties. Just use bigger steel for the ties so you have a more stable base. I think your Forney will need a large radius, probably 65" or greater to go around curves. Our RR keeps to a 75 ft mainline radius and it seems to work well.

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Re: Building a small loop around the house?

Post by OddDuck »

Does it have to be a loop? Build a point to point, put a "depot" at either end. You have a test track to have fun with, and when the kids are older they will spend hours shifting "cargo" ( fake barrels, crates, etc). Build them a small electric and a few flat cars. Perhaps even build the track in a flattened lens shape so you have a siding or two. Find one of those power wheel cars and use the guts out of it for their loco.
"If you took the bones out they wouldn't be crunchy!" -Monty Python's Flying Circus
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rmac
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Re: Building a small loop around the house?

Post by rmac »

tomc wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:35 am I think your Forney will need a large radius, probably 65" or greater
You probably meant 65 feet???
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Re: Building a small loop around the house?

Post by rkcarguy »

apm wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:33 pm I can understand the need for good drainage when it comes to wooden tires on track that is subject to freeze/thaw but would it have the same level of importance on the welded hot rolled steel construction seen in that video?
I don't know where you are located, but in my area it rains a lot. Not only is keeping the ties dry important, but if care/planning isn't taken regarding drainage, gravel slowly disappears into the soil and becomes a mud pit, even just on foot trails. One can keep adding gravel and it just keeps going south. My advice in my above post has been "solid" for me in several projects over the years.
I am using 3/8x1 flat bar for rails, except I opted for a bolted connection at the ends and use a little 1/8" laser cut joiner plate with slotted holes to allow for thermal expansion/contraction.
Lastly, I'm kicking around building an electric "critter" for the kids to operate that would have a simple "go pedal" and would be able to negotiate a tighter radius so they would have a continuous running loop to their own with a spur connecting it to the rest of the RR (I have 5 acres).
Lastly, you could just go with a welded steel track on composite/plastic decking ties, and have the sections bolt together and just set it up on the lawn seasonally like a giant train set.
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Re: Building a small loop around the house?

Post by RET »

Hi apm,

I'm anything but an expert, but why not start out with a welded portable track with sections like toy train track that you lay down on the lawn when you want to "play train' and that you take up when the day is done. That can be stuck together pretty easily with a welder and by choosing the proper size of flat bar and flat bar tie spacing you can come up with something that will support your engine. You make straight and curved pieces that bolt together and are small enough so they can be handled relatively easily and stored away at the end of the day.

If you find that does what you need, you can re-do some of it in stainless. I have 60 feet of stainless track laid in the back yard. It has been down now for close to 10 years and looks just as good as it did when I laid it. It is a combination of 7 1/4" and 3 1/2" gauges and is welded together from 1/4" x 3/4" stainless flat bar. Yes, you can run the lawn mower over it. I put it down so I would have a place to test out a locomotive before I took it to a club track. Originally I had problems with weeds, but I solved that by getting 60 feet of conveyor belt, laid it down and stuck the track on top of that. No weeds.

Over time, if you and your family decide you want more, then you can look into doing some kind of permanent track.

Just another possibility.

Richard Trounce.
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