Hi ya'll, I have a head space issue on a small ring Mauser...The stripped bolt closes on both the go and no go gauges.. I have the barrel off now and I can chuck it up in my lathe. My question is because it closes on the no go does that mean I need to face off a couple of thousandths and check to see if it is good? If that works would I need to cut the shoulder back as well? I am a beginner and I need a little advice.. Thanks..
mtnsmith...........
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head space advice??
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hammermill
- Posts: 2938
- Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:43 pm
- Location: pendleton or
Re: head space advice??
1 st do you have the right guage
second try adding concesative layers of tape to the no go guage to see how far out you are.
a rule of thunb is each layer of tape = .001 so you will have to move the shoulder foreward by .001 for each layer of tape.
is this a old barrel or new one and do you have a chamber reamer?
i do not have access to you tube where i am, but midway usa has some excellent videos on rebarreling,cutting chambers etc that would bare looking at.
second try adding concesative layers of tape to the no go guage to see how far out you are.
a rule of thunb is each layer of tape = .001 so you will have to move the shoulder foreward by .001 for each layer of tape.
is this a old barrel or new one and do you have a chamber reamer?
i do not have access to you tube where i am, but midway usa has some excellent videos on rebarreling,cutting chambers etc that would bare looking at.
Re: head space advice??
Yes I have a chamber reamer and the head space gauges...Thanks for the tip...
mtnsmith....
mtnsmith....
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hammermill
- Posts: 2938
- Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:43 pm
- Location: pendleton or
Re: head space advice??
Hammermill,
It's funny how different people can read the same line and get a different meaning out of it. I concluded that if both the "go" and the "No GO" gage both fit then the shoulder is out to far! (Chamber is to long)
You are correct, the tape trick adds about .002 for each layer. So if the chamber is too long (because the no go gage fits) then the barrel shoulder has to be moved back on full turn and chamber has to be re-cut to proper depth/length.
So it gets confusing when you say "shoulder" as it could be the barrel shoulder that fits to the action or one could think it is the chamber shoulder.
I bet you knew what you meant even though I didn't.
It's all fun!
Dave C.
It's funny how different people can read the same line and get a different meaning out of it. I concluded that if both the "go" and the "No GO" gage both fit then the shoulder is out to far! (Chamber is to long)
You are correct, the tape trick adds about .002 for each layer. So if the chamber is too long (because the no go gage fits) then the barrel shoulder has to be moved back on full turn and chamber has to be re-cut to proper depth/length.
So it gets confusing when you say "shoulder" as it could be the barrel shoulder that fits to the action or one could think it is the chamber shoulder.
I bet you knew what you meant even though I didn't.
It's all fun!
Dave C.
I learn something new every day! Problem is I forget two.
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hammermill
- Posts: 2938
- Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:43 pm
- Location: pendleton or
Re: head space advice??
dave c your right on the chamber is too long or the barrel is not threaded in far enough both could be issues effecting headspace
so all dimensions need to be checked to determine which way to go.
here are a couple diagrams to enighten waht is being discussed
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=rif ... eadspacing
so all dimensions need to be checked to determine which way to go.
here are a couple diagrams to enighten waht is being discussed
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=rif ... eadspacing
Re: head space advice??
BTW. Does anyone know where I can get a jig that will hold my small ring Mauser receiver in a lathe so I can face off the receiver??
mtnsmith.........
mtnsmith.........
Re: head space advice??
I'm trying to keep up with this post and I have some questions since I can't see the gun you are working on.
You are asking for a "Jig" to hold the receiver in a lathe. I am guessing that you intend to take off the front end where the barrel meets the receiver to fix a head space issue?
That brings up the questions: Does your barrel have to be indexed so the sights are on top or an ejector tang to fit in the breach of the barrel? If so, you will have to take off "exactualy" enough metal to let the barrel turn one full turn.
Then I ask, how course is the thread on this small ring mauser and how much metal would you remove.
Personally, if I don't have an alignment issue with the end of a receiver, I would not be taking off metal for any reason. (That's just my thoughts) My reason is this. It is very hard to get the receiver in perfect alignment with the bolt bore on some of these guns. OD's are not always square to the bore!
Not knowing what the barrel thread pitch is on your gun but if it is a 16 tpi or close, then setting back the barrel shoulder is a lot easier than turning down the receiver. Either way, you have to head space the chamber afterward.
To do this, divide 1 inch by the number of threads per inch you have on the barrel. That will tell you how far the barrel will move back for one full turn. (IE: 16 tpi moves 0.0625" per turn)
Set up the barrel true to the bore in your lathe, mount some sort of indicator so you can accuratley tell how much you are taking off and take off just short of the number you came up with above. Trial fit till it indexes the way you want it with proper torque applied.
Now you are ready to head space the chamber.
Go slow. Metal comes off real easy but does not go back on so well.
If it turns out you have one of those 3 or 4 tpi threads then you may need more help than I can offer as they take some special skill and tools that I don't have. Most of the work I have done is on newer more common makes and modles of firearms.
Good Luck,
Dave C.
You are asking for a "Jig" to hold the receiver in a lathe. I am guessing that you intend to take off the front end where the barrel meets the receiver to fix a head space issue?
That brings up the questions: Does your barrel have to be indexed so the sights are on top or an ejector tang to fit in the breach of the barrel? If so, you will have to take off "exactualy" enough metal to let the barrel turn one full turn.
Then I ask, how course is the thread on this small ring mauser and how much metal would you remove.
Personally, if I don't have an alignment issue with the end of a receiver, I would not be taking off metal for any reason. (That's just my thoughts) My reason is this. It is very hard to get the receiver in perfect alignment with the bolt bore on some of these guns. OD's are not always square to the bore!
Not knowing what the barrel thread pitch is on your gun but if it is a 16 tpi or close, then setting back the barrel shoulder is a lot easier than turning down the receiver. Either way, you have to head space the chamber afterward.
To do this, divide 1 inch by the number of threads per inch you have on the barrel. That will tell you how far the barrel will move back for one full turn. (IE: 16 tpi moves 0.0625" per turn)
Set up the barrel true to the bore in your lathe, mount some sort of indicator so you can accuratley tell how much you are taking off and take off just short of the number you came up with above. Trial fit till it indexes the way you want it with proper torque applied.
Now you are ready to head space the chamber.
Go slow. Metal comes off real easy but does not go back on so well.
If it turns out you have one of those 3 or 4 tpi threads then you may need more help than I can offer as they take some special skill and tools that I don't have. Most of the work I have done is on newer more common makes and modles of firearms.
Good Luck,
Dave C.
I learn something new every day! Problem is I forget two.
Re: head space advice??
DrDavo wrote:I'm trying to keep up with this post and I have some questions since I can't see the gun you are working on.
You are asking for a "Jig" to hold the receiver in a lathe. I am guessing that you intend to take off the front end where the barrel meets the receiver to fix a head space issue?
That brings up the questions: Does your barrel have to be indexed so the sights are on top or an ejector tang to fit in the breach of the barrel? If so, you will have to take off "exactualy" enough metal to let the barrel turn one full turn.
Then I ask, how course is the thread on this small ring mauser and how much metal would you remove.
Personally, if I don't have an alignment issue with the end of a receiver, I would not be taking off metal for any reason. (That's just my thoughts) My reason is this. It is very hard to get the receiver in perfect alignment with the bolt bore on some of these guns. OD's are not always square to the bore!
Not knowing what the barrel thread pitch is on your gun but if it is a 16 tpi or close, then setting back the barrel shoulder is a lot easier than turning down the receiver. Either way, you have to head space the chamber afterward.
To do this, divide 1 inch by the number of threads per inch you have on the barrel. That will tell you how far the barrel will move back for one full turn. (IE: 16 tpi moves 0.0625" per turn)
Set up the barrel true to the bore in your lathe, mount some sort of indicator so you can accuratley tell how much you are taking off and take off just short of the number you came up with above. Trial fit till it indexes the way you want it with proper torque applied.
Now you are ready to head space the chamber.
Go slow. Metal comes off real easy but does not go back on so well.
If it turns out you have one of those 3 or 4 tpi threads then you may need more help than I can offer as they take some special skill and tools that I don't have. Most of the work I have done is on newer more common makes and modles of firearms.
Good Luck,
Dave C.
Thanks Dave.. The thread pitch is 12 tpi and there are no sights on the barrel... There is only .002 excessive head space using the no go gauge. Is this even a problem? Some folks suggested truing the receiver face to make sure it is square to the refaced barrel shank, I dunno I am just a beginner.. At .002 should I even worry about it??
mtnsmith...................................
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hammermill
- Posts: 2938
- Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:43 pm
- Location: pendleton or
Re: head space advice??
you can get mandrels for mauser actions from brownells,midway and several other places.
but before heading down this road and risking a expensive train wreck a more maped out
plan may be in order.
as everyone has different equipment and resources we will tackle the project a bit differiently.
do you have the old barrel?
how big.small is the lathe?
do you have a action block and barrel wrench?
are you planning work on the bolt lugs and there co part in the action?
but before heading down this road and risking a expensive train wreck a more maped out
plan may be in order.
as everyone has different equipment and resources we will tackle the project a bit differiently.
do you have the old barrel?
how big.small is the lathe?
do you have a action block and barrel wrench?
are you planning work on the bolt lugs and there co part in the action?
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GeorgeGaskill
Re: head space advice??
At .002 should I even worry about it??
The question is how much of the case is sticking out in the air?
It would be a good idea to try to determine where the excessive headspace is coming from. Are the bolt lugs getting set back into the receiver? Is the bolt having problems? Are you loading too much powder or the wrong kind in reloaded cartridges? What caliber is this?
You could adjust your reloading dies to hold the shoulder farther out but this does not guarantee a safe rifle. Understanding the source of the problem will allow a better solution.
The question is how much of the case is sticking out in the air?
It would be a good idea to try to determine where the excessive headspace is coming from. Are the bolt lugs getting set back into the receiver? Is the bolt having problems? Are you loading too much powder or the wrong kind in reloaded cartridges? What caliber is this?
You could adjust your reloading dies to hold the shoulder farther out but this does not guarantee a safe rifle. Understanding the source of the problem will allow a better solution.
Re: head space advice??
Lots of good advice in this thread. As was said, it is important to have a plan in advance as to what you want to do. Even MORE important is understanding WHY you are doing it before you do it. 
Having 50,000 PSI in front of your face is not a time to be experimenting with unknowns.
Again, what chambering (caliber) you are dealing with?
I would never recommend facing a receiver without knowing if it is square or not, or if the lugs were set back or not.
As hammermill pointed out the jig you referred to would be a receiver mandrel. That would however be handy for checking to see if the receiver ring is square to the threads and bolt raceway as well.
For the record - I am NOT a gunsmith, nor do I play one on TV, but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn.
Having 50,000 PSI in front of your face is not a time to be experimenting with unknowns.
Again, what chambering (caliber) you are dealing with?
I would never recommend facing a receiver without knowing if it is square or not, or if the lugs were set back or not.
As hammermill pointed out the jig you referred to would be a receiver mandrel. That would however be handy for checking to see if the receiver ring is square to the threads and bolt raceway as well.
For the record - I am NOT a gunsmith, nor do I play one on TV, but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn.
