Newbie-Lathe And Mill What Types Suitable For Me?

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pollys1dad
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Newbie-Lathe And Mill What Types Suitable For Me?

Post by pollys1dad »

Hi,
Are there any useful books for a beginner to learn about lathes and mills, types use, combo lathe, mill? I'm aware of the Harold Hall books but also seen some negative reviews on these.
I''m looking into making aluminum parts for the undercarriage of a pedal steel guitar. Also pedals something like in the attached screenshot, again can Google and see different designs.
I don't know if am looking at the right machines to make the various parts? One can do a Google image search on, pedal steel guitar undercarriage and will see photos of undercarriages and their component parts. What type of home, hobby level machines, extra tools and why might need these various tools and what know how would I need, to get started?
Thanks.
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Bill Shields
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Re: Newbie-Lathe And Mill What Types Suitable For Me?

Post by Bill Shields »

start with a casting for a part like that unless you are good at either welding or silver soldering.

combo machines are always set up wrong.....even with good planning, there are going to be times when it is set up as a mill and you need a lathe and visa versa.
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
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Re: Newbie-Lathe And Mill What Types Suitable For Me?

Post by Steggy »

Bill Shields wrote: Thu May 25, 2023 8:53 amcombo machines are always set up wrong.....even with good planning, there are going to be times when it is set up as a mill and you need a lathe and visa versa.
Functionally translated, what Bill is implying is you would be better served by a lathe and a mill, rather than a combo unit. The combo (aka 3-in-1) machines often compromise on flexibility in some way, which will, sooner or later, get in the way of your activities. If your budget can stand it, go the lathe and mill route.

As for the pedals, same opinion here: those should probably start life as castings, unless you are skilled at brazing, silver soldering and/or welding. Trying to make those from a blob of metal will have you expending a lot of time whittling away on your blob to achieve the desired shape.
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pollys1dad
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Re: Newbie-Lathe And Mill What Types Suitable For Me?

Post by pollys1dad »

" As for the pedals, same opinion here: those should probably start life as castings " Would this be something that a home hobbyist DIY person could do in a gaarge shop, or is it a very involved, dangerous process, fumes, molten metal? I expect might be more practical to have a company make them up.
pollys1dad
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Re: Newbie-Lathe And Mill What Types Suitable For Me?

Post by pollys1dad »

Um, just been watching, Casting Aluminum for the Home from a Simple 3D Print, looking at the casting process, whats involved. I don't think that would be beyond me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AaujAPghhE Though would need to check if any regulations in place that would prevent me doing that in my garage or under cover in my garden. Saw one of these casting videos before.
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rmac
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Re: Newbie-Lathe And Mill What Types Suitable For Me?

Post by rmac »

pollys1dad wrote: I'm looking into making aluminum parts for the undercarriage of a pedal steel guitar.
Lots of questions:
  • Does the picture below show a good example of the other parts (besides the pedals) that you want to make?
  • Are you thinking about making parts for many guitars, or just one?
  • Are those parts with the holes and the round ends all the same, or do they have different dimensions that you can't tell from the picture?
  • Do you have plans for other projects besides the guitar parts?
  • Do you want to make pedals that actually look like the ones in the eBay ad, or just something that will work?
-- Russell Mac

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pollys1dad
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Re: Newbie-Lathe And Mill What Types Suitable For Me?

Post by pollys1dad »

Replies to questions.
1- yes and quite a few other designs of parts that one can see, Google image pedal steel guitar undercarriage. I'm thinking one can buy parts already made, like the square bar, and just cut to required length, an Ebay seller might include cutting to length, would avoid expense of a suitable, decent metal cutting bandsaw, though I do have a 3hp bandsaw for woodworking. In the the upload of your original photo. The aluminium plate at the back with red dashes, that would be possible to buy premade, again as part of seller surface cut to size. The yellow arrow shows an area not sure how that was was put together, also where the leg screws in. I have a decent quality, floor standing pillar drill.
Also have a 40 year old ZB- Custom S-10 Zane Beck 10 string single neck pedal steel, which needs some work, renovating it at some stage. The legs used, were Atlas microphone legs, the pedal rods were contrived from motorbike spokes. Getting back to your photo, yes and besides the pedals, which are not visable in your photo the quite fancy knee levers are.
2- Just a small one man business offering a couple of designs of PSG.
3- different dimensions that I can't tell from the picture.
4- not really anything at the moment.
5- Something that will work but aesthetically pleasing.

I have Sketchup for designing woodwork projects. Not looked yet don't know if Sketchup have a metalwork version, or plugins that could help with the design process.
I bought a 2nd hand Bennett S-10 PSG a couple of days ago. The guy had a Clarke CL500M Metal Lathe with Mill Drill in his kitchen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bZdJSDFoE0 and mentioned he had made some replacement pedals for an Emmons PSG. I didn't want to ask any more questions but this got me thinking about getting a combo lathe mill, probably same as his. I'm thinking top parts of guitar, might be difficult to make, I'll upload a couple of photos later that will Illustrate this.
Cheers.
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rmac
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Re: Newbie-Lathe And Mill What Types Suitable For Me?

Post by rmac »

pollys1dad wrote: I'm thinking one can buy parts already made, like the square bar, and just cut to required length
I agree that some of those parts would be very simple to just cut from standard stock material.
pollys1dad wrote: an Ebay seller might include cutting to length ...
I dunno about this. Seems to me like communicating what you want to some eBay seller and then dealing with the hassle when you don't get what you asked for would be a lot more expensive in the end than just cutting the parts yourself ... especially since you say you're thinking about making this a business. You don't want your business depending on some guy on eBay who might disappear tomorrow.
pollys1dad wrote: ... to avoid expense of a suitable, decent metal cutting bandsaw, though I do have a 3hp bandsaw for woodworking
You might be able to use the bandsaw you have for metal if you can slow it down and install a metal cutting blade.
pollys1dad wrote: different dimensions that I can't tell from the picture.
Really? From the picture those parts (with the holes and the rounded ends) look to me like they're all the same. I was thinking if they were all the same you should just have them made in batches by somebody with a CNC mill. Making them one by one on a manual machine would be an incredibly tedious, mind numbing chore. Besides that, depending on how well everything needs to fit, you might need to bore those big holes rather than just drill them. I'm not sure how well that would go on the minimal equipment (the Clarke CL500M machine) you're considering.
pollys1dad wrote: Something that will work but aesthetically pleasing (the pedals).
So maybe you could design something that you could fabricate from stock and avoid the whole casting thing.
pollys1dad wrote: The guy had a Clarke CL500M Metal Lathe with Mill Drill in his kitchen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bZdJSDFoE0 and mentioned he had made some replacement pedals for an Emmons PSG. I didn't want to ask any more questions but this got me thinking about getting a combo lathe mill, probably same as his.
I agree with the others that if you have the money and the space, you'd be much better off with a separate lathe and a small mill/drill. You will get very annoyed with a combo machine if you use it very much all. Also, avoid a round column mill/drill.
pollys1dad wrote: I'm thinking top parts of guitar, might be difficult to make
Yes. And they have to look very nice as well.

If you're serious about making this a business, it seems like the best way to start would be to come up with a design and have a machine shop make you a "kit" of parts that you could assemble and sell as a completed unit. Then if you wind up selling a lot of guitars, you could think about tooling up to make the parts yourself in order to lower your costs. Especially since you say you don't have any other projects in mind, it doesn't seem to me like a good idea to get all set up to make something you can't sell. (On the other hand, once you have a mill and lathe, you will likely use them for all kinds of things you didn't think of beforehand.)

-- Russell Mac
pollys1dad
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Re: Newbie-Lathe And Mill What Types Suitable For Me?

Post by pollys1dad »

Thanks for the input guys, a few things to mull over. Been reading, some very interesting stuff on Wilipedia, about mills, milling cutters, roughing out types and finish cutters also been reading up on lathes...... um :)

Not sure if should be looking at CAD software that might help with design of parts, Sketchup would be up to the job. Not done in depth research but what I've seen, is CAD software is like a yearly licence and pretty..... expensive.
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rmac
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Re: Newbie-Lathe And Mill What Types Suitable For Me?

Post by rmac »

pollys1dad wrote: Not sure if should be looking at CAD software that might help with design of parts, Sketchup would be up to the job. Not done in depth research but what I've seen, is CAD software is like a yearly licence and pretty..... expensive.
Yeah, you might be able to get by with SketchUp, but it isn't the best for making the 2D drawings that you'd need if you decide to work with outside vendors. I personally like Fusion 360. A mildly crippled version is free for personal use. You'd need a license to use it commercially.

For more info on Fusion 360 and other free CAD programs, check out this thread from earlier this year.

-- Russell Mac
pollys1dad
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Re: Newbie-Lathe And Mill What Types Suitable For Me?

Post by pollys1dad »

rmac, ok great cheers for that :)
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