ELectric Controllers for Diesel models.

This forum is dedicated to Riding Scale Railroading with propulsion using other than steam (Hydraulics, diesel engines, gas engines, electric motors, hybrid etc.)

Moderator: Harold_V

Post Reply
User avatar
PRR5406
Posts: 873
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:12 pm
Location: Eastern Maine

ELectric Controllers for Diesel models.

Post by PRR5406 »

This is a new thread sprouted away from the parent thread regarding R/C controllers. My original question is reprinted below:

"May I rewrite the question and inquire? I don't necessarily want radio control to power my locomotive. I kind of feel like the experience of operating a train requires me to "be in the cab", as with a real locomotive (steam). Anyway - I power my "Diesels" with 24 volt, 400 watt wheel chair motors, drawing something like 17 amps. I want to get away from wheel chair controllers for a variety of reasons, one being age and technology.
Cut to the chase: Is there a reasonably priced electric controller to wire in between the two batteries and the motors, and what is recommended by you guys in the know?"
"Always stopping my train, and risking my ankles, with American made, New Balance sneakers."
User avatar
SPSteam2491
Posts: 271
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:30 pm
Location: Mukwonago, WI

Re: ELectric Controllers for Diesel models.

Post by SPSteam2491 »

What is your budget for a controller? With motor controllers, the quality and long lasting of the components increases with price. You can get controllers for $50 but be prepared for it to stop working after a couple of years.

Syren controllers are a commonly used one and they go for ~$120. Easy to setup and use but are limited by amp draw. Two can be used on 1 engine (each powering it's own truck) It is double the price but provides additional safety factor for high amp draw situations.

Another option is 4QD. More expensive than Syren (~$250) but can handle higher amps and is a better option for larger locomotives. It does have a larger foot print so if space is a concern on the engine, it may not be the best solution.
Thanks
John LaFavor
Pacific Design Shops
Pontiacguy1
Posts: 1566
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:15 am
Location: Tennessee, USA

Re: ELectric Controllers for Diesel models.

Post by Pontiacguy1 »

I used a 4QD Pro-150 on the little 4 wheel critter that my son and I built. Yes, I could have done it cheaper, but the 4QD has a really good reputation, and It was more than large enough to power two 350 watt motors that we used. In the end, I'm willing to pay a little bit more for something that I am reasonably sure will last longer and give less trouble. I just wanted something that's going to work, in all types of weather, with no fuss. It's done that very well.
User avatar
Pipescs
Posts: 2194
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:16 pm
Location: Lester Alabama

Re: ELectric Controllers for Diesel models.

Post by Pipescs »

I used a 4QD Pro-150 on the little 4 wheel critter that my son and I built. Yes, I could have done it cheaper, but the 4QD has a really good reputation, and It was more than large enough to power two 350 watt motors that we used.
Having seen Pontiacguys engine running, I decided to convert a very old, gas, 25 Tonner, originally built by Railroad Supply back in the sixties. Having a chance to crawl thru his engine I used the same motors model, but with an add on gear box, as I did not have the room he had. Ended up with the same speed range. the motors were run parallel off of one controller. Motors are rated to 20 amps each continuous.

Primarily for cost reasons I went with the Syren 50. Cost with shipping was $126.00. What did appeal to me was the flat out statement the controller was rated for 50 amps, continuous, without extra cooling. Easy to install, small, Large cooling fins (going with 12 volt computer fans any way) and easy to program with dip switches. Can be linked to put one controller per motor if needed and be radio controlled, I am not as interested as I originally was that feature. Power was the same two 24DC Marine/RV batteries as Pontiac guy.

Ran the engine at mid south for two hours, mostly at top speed to see if it would hold together. Ran two laps of the entire track at over 7 mph. Actually this felt rather insane.

With me only on one car the amps ran from 4 to 6 amps total draw on the battery

Really glad I went electric on this old girl as I had quit using it due to the finicky 1954 engine.
Charlie Pipes
Mid-South Live Steamers


Current Projects:

Scratch Built 3 3/4 scale 0-4-4 Forney
Little Engines American
20 Ton Shay (Castings and Plans Purchased for future)
User avatar
Pipescs
Posts: 2194
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:16 pm
Location: Lester Alabama

Re: ELectric Controllers for Diesel models.

Post by Pipescs »

Ponticacguy, you should list the pros of the 4QD and I will list the shortfalls for the Syren.
Charlie Pipes
Mid-South Live Steamers


Current Projects:

Scratch Built 3 3/4 scale 0-4-4 Forney
Little Engines American
20 Ton Shay (Castings and Plans Purchased for future)
User avatar
PRR5406
Posts: 873
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:12 pm
Location: Eastern Maine

Re: ELectric Controllers for Diesel models.

Post by PRR5406 »

This is important feedback guys. I'm certain it will help many people wanting to construct their own rides.
"Always stopping my train, and risking my ankles, with American made, New Balance sneakers."
Pontiacguy1
Posts: 1566
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:15 am
Location: Tennessee, USA

Re: ELectric Controllers for Diesel models.

Post by Pontiacguy1 »

Note: this is from a novice in dealing with electrical controllers. I am NOT an electrical engineer or an electronics guru of any sort!
Here Goes: The 4QD Pro-150 is designed for mobile equipment and is extremely easy to use. It has inputs for ground and power, plus a plug for hooking up to an external control device or potentiometer. It has two places to plug in motors for outputs. It comes with a small hand-held programmer that can be either detached or permanently mounted, and which will display your input voltage when not being used for programming. It has pretty high capacity for a small unit, with 60 amp continuous output capability, and 100 amps up to 1 minute. That's more than enough for most small to mid-size locomotives. It also has regenerative braking to help re-charge batteries when going down a hill. There is also an output on the unit (up to 1 amp) that will turn an electric parking brake on and off. I use this for my electric parking brake and have been completely happy with its operation. As soon as the 4QD senses that you're asking it to move, it puts power to this output which will release your parking brake.
It is easy to set up your system so that it responds the way you want it to. For instance, I have it set so that the ramp-up time from 0 to full voltage to the motors is 5 seconds. The ramp down time is 2 seconds. You can also easily set the maximum speed as a percentage in both forward and reverse. So, if I had some smaller children running the locomotive, I could easily go in and program it for max speed to be 65% in forward and 35% in reverse.

Some downsides, maybe: It had a sounder that operated in reverse, which was very annoying and which you will want to disable. It uses 9.5mm push-on blades for the inputs and outputs, and some may not like that. It is more expensive than a lot of the other controllers on the market. It does not come with heat sinks. It may not need them in your application, but if you want to run up near the 60 amp continuous output area, you will probably need to mount it to something that will help keep it cool. I have not had any trouble with overheating personally.

Conclusion from me: Very good product, versatile and easy to program to your needs, but is a more expensive option. I would make the purchase again, for what that is worth. it has run this little locomotive with two 350 watt motors in it very well, and I have been pleased. Locomotive is approximately 250 lbs, and it will pull 1300 trailing pounds all around the track at Mid-South with our 3%+ grades. That's not too shabby in my opinion.
20221014_121437b.jpg
20221014_121437b.jpg (259.9 KiB) Viewed 4550 times
User avatar
NP317
Posts: 4557
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:57 pm
Location: Northern Oregon, USA

Re: ELectric Controllers for Diesel models.

Post by NP317 »

"It had a sounder that operated in reverse..."

What is a Sounder? (besides the monthly newsletter of the NW Railway Museum.)
Thanks.
RussN
Ken Schroeder
Posts: 156
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:52 pm
Location: Gardnerville, NV

Re: ELectric Controllers for Diesel models.

Post by Ken Schroeder »

I have completed 11 locomotives and am presently building the 12th all using the controllers from Ride Trains and have been very happy with them. For the steeple cabs with two 450 watt motors they have a Syren 50 and the the GP locomotives with four 450 watt motors he uses 2 Syren 50 units. All of the units I have bought from Roy Stevens have been supplied with a sound system. His controllers have a nice compact hand held controller. After building 11 live steam locomotives this was my first venture into electric locomotives and Roy has been very helpful.
skid-roe
Posts: 204
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:51 pm
Location: Yakima, WA

Re: ELectric Controllers for Diesel models.

Post by skid-roe »

I agree with Ken Schroeder, I have used 5 of the Ride Train controller systems on all of my "electrics"
Simple to install and comes with a built in sound system.
Pontiacguy1
Posts: 1566
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:15 am
Location: Tennessee, USA

Re: ELectric Controllers for Diesel models.

Post by Pontiacguy1 »

What is a Sounder?
It was some type of back-up beeper that would beep loudly when you put it into reverse. It was easily turned off, but it was very annoying. I can see needing it for some applications, but not for a locomotive.
User avatar
NP317
Posts: 4557
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:57 pm
Location: Northern Oregon, USA

Re: ELectric Controllers for Diesel models.

Post by NP317 »

Thanks for that explanation.
I be edumicated now...
RussN
Post Reply