Derailments

This forum is dedicated to the Live Steam Hobbyist Community.

Moderators: cbrew, Harold_V

User avatar
Greg_Lewis
Posts: 3014
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 2:44 pm
Location: Fresno, CA

Re: Derailments

Post by Greg_Lewis »

A recent story originally published in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution cites Sen. Sherrod Brown of Ohio as saying that the NS had 579 safety violations in closed cases, in which they paid an average of $3300 in fines. That totals out to $1,910,700. The article also says that NS spent billions of dollars on stock buybacks “[W]hich safety advocates say could have been spent to instead improve safety.”

As I wrote above, it all comes down to money.

One issue, although not related to the Ohio derailment, is railroads wanting to cut the 2-man crew to one. Many of you probably know about the dead man pedal that was created back in the late 1950s or early 60s after an engineer died at the throttle. I remember that engine crews hated that as it made it hard for an engineer to change seating position, and they quickly figured out how to put a rock on it or wedge a signal flag between the pedal and other cab fittings to hold the pedal down. I don't know about modern safety features but I can't see how two pairs of human eyes and ears in the cab could be replaced by something else. Witness the problems with self-driving cars. (Yes, the cars have more impediments on their journeys than trains, but the point remains.)

The solutions to the problems are obvious but as long as maximizing profit remains the goal, I'm not optimistic that much beyond a few cosmetic changes will happen.
Greg Lewis, Prop.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 35 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.
Babaji322
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:22 pm

Re: Derailments

Post by Babaji322 »

Well looks like congress is going to mandate 2 man crews for railroads in law.
User avatar
NP317
Posts: 4557
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:57 pm
Location: Northern Oregon, USA

Re: Derailments

Post by NP317 »

Babaji322 wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 2:13 pm Well looks like congress is going to mandate 2 man crews for railroads in law.
And that's down from the required minimum 4-person crews in steam days.
RussN
pat1027
Posts: 444
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 3:45 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Derailments

Post by pat1027 »

NS and the class ones are not unique. Airlines and regulators are working on rules to fly commercial flights with one pilot in the cockpit. Cargo flights and long haul international flights would be first. The international flights would have a second pilot during take off and landing. Cruise would be a single person flying. At least in the beginning.
User avatar
Charles T. McCullough
Posts: 383
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:25 pm

Re: Derailments

Post by Charles T. McCullough »

hee hee... I can understand the 2nd pilot leaving after take-off, parachutes and all, but how does he get back in to be the 2nd pilot for landing?
User avatar
Steggy
Posts: 1976
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:19 pm
Location: JB Pritzker’s Hellhole
Contact:

Re: Derailments

Post by Steggy »

Charles T. McCullough wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:20 pmhee hee... I can understand the 2nd pilot leaving after take-off, parachutes and all, but how does he get back in to be the 2nd pilot for landing?

Elementary, my friend. A rocket suit! :D
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————
Music isn’t at all difficult.  All you gotta do is play the right notes at the right time!  :D
User avatar
Steggy
Posts: 1976
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:19 pm
Location: JB Pritzker’s Hellhole
Contact:

Re: Derailments

Post by Steggy »

pat1027 wrote: Mon Apr 28, 1975 7:01 pmAirlines and regulators are working on rules to fly commercial flights with one pilot in the cockpit.

Should be eminently workable...until the plane’s electrical system goes on the fritz and the computers quit computing. I look forward to hearing the regulators’ excuses when that happens and the plane ends up punching a hole in the ground because the lone pilot was overwhelmed by the resulting workload.

Over-reliance on automation has already resulted in a number of commercial plane crashes, as well as close calls. There’s a reason for having human redundancy in the cockpit, and it isn’t to add bloat to the payroll.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————
Music isn’t at all difficult.  All you gotta do is play the right notes at the right time!  :D
User avatar
Dick_Morris
Posts: 2841
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 2:09 pm
Location: Anchorage, AK

Re: Derailments

Post by Dick_Morris »

From the Washington Post yesterday, "A Southwest pilot ‘fainted.’ Then an off-duty pilot stepped in to help." https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2 ... l-landing/
User avatar
Steggy
Posts: 1976
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:19 pm
Location: JB Pritzker’s Hellhole
Contact:

Re: Derailments

Post by Steggy »

Dick_Morris wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 4:36 am From the Washington Post yesterday, "A Southwest pilot ‘fainted.’ Then an off-duty pilot stepped in to help." https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2 ... l-landing/

Yep! I heard about it from a friend who flies left seat for Southwest.

Now, suppose that pilot had been the only one in the cockpit and the FO (first officer) had been in back taking a snooze. Or, worse yet, what if there were no FO? How would anyone else on board had known the captain was in distress and couldn’t continue with his duties? What if there had been no other qualified individual to step into the cockpit and take over? Would this had become a case of the plane continuing on autopilot until the fuel had been exhausted?

I don’t know about you guys, but I ain’t getting on any airliner with only one person doing the driving. :shock:
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————
Music isn’t at all difficult.  All you gotta do is play the right notes at the right time!  :D
User avatar
Greg_Lewis
Posts: 3014
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 2:44 pm
Location: Fresno, CA

Re: Derailments

Post by Greg_Lewis »

Steggy wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 11:24 am ...
What if there had been no other qualified individual to step into the cockpit and take over?
...

They'd just use an autopilot like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOSfFQW2FLo

They could put those in the locomotive cabs, too.
Greg Lewis, Prop.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 35 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.
User avatar
Bill Shields
Posts: 10459
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:57 am
Location: 39.367, -75.765
Contact:

Re: Derailments

Post by Bill Shields »

the flip side of that coin:

let the autopilot fly it by default, and let the human be the backup.... :shock:

not that I would actually passenger on one....
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
User avatar
Steggy
Posts: 1976
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:19 pm
Location: JB Pritzker’s Hellhole
Contact:

Re: Derailments

Post by Steggy »

Greg_Lewis wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 11:54 am
Steggy wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 11:24 am ...
What if there had been no other qualified individual to step into the cockpit and take over?
...

They'd just use an autopilot like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOSfFQW2FLo

They could put those in the locomotive cabs, too.

Let that be a lesson to you to be wary of what they’re serving for lunch.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————
Music isn’t at all difficult.  All you gotta do is play the right notes at the right time!  :D
Post Reply