Progress on the 3/4" scale 0-8-0 switcher

Where users can chronicle their builds. Start one thread and continue to add on to it.

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Old England
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Re: Progress on the 3/4" scale 0-8-0 switcher

Post by Old England »

I decided to get on with the brake gear, beginning with the Westinghouse cylinders and the bracket that supports them. As they are clearly visible from the typical 3/4" scale viewer I thought they should look nice, then inspired by Jack's work on the J1e, they might as well be working brakes. Here are a few photos of the initial work. Drilling 14BA tapping holes (0.82mm) using a heavy duty turret mill required a fair degree of sensitivity! I've added a little low relief ribbing to the top cylinder heads, beginnings of this in the 3rd photo.
Things are nearly finished but haven't had time to take any photos yet, principally because I couldn't ignore the horrible noises from the head of the turret mill any longer. I bought it 2nd hand over 20 years ago and it's worked hard nearly every day since then. The videos by H&W Machine Repair and Rebuilding on YouTube were so helpful and I feel as if I know Barry quite well now :D Anyhow all rebuilt with new bearings and various bodges by previous owners rectified. Re-assembly was a nightmare: refitting the 3hp motor 5ft off the ground is not recommended for those in their 70th year, especially as due to the low ceiling it had to be fitted with the head tilted at 45° supporting the motor with one arm whilst struggling to get the drive belt over the pulley from underneath. Still it was worth it, sooo quiet now!
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Old England
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Re: Progress on the 3/4" scale 0-8-0 switcher

Post by Old England »

Nearly ready to attach the bracket and cylinders to the frame, just need to tap the pairs of holes which go into the cylinder flanges but I don't have the correct tap. Chasing those 14BA nuts (2mm across the flats) with the box spanner was less than amusing at times but pleased with the result. I'll blacken the cylinder heads rather than painting to prevent the detail from being swallowed up.
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Old England
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Re: Progress on the 3/4" scale 0-8-0 switcher

Post by Old England »

Could anyone help with how this pin in the brake hanger bracket is located please? Please don't tell me it's nutted on the back :( Perhaps there is a taper pin from the top? Looked at all the photos I have and my Locomotive Cyclodpedia to no avail.
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FKreider
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Re: Progress on the 3/4" scale 0-8-0 switcher

Post by FKreider »

Looks like a good application for a cotter pin to me. That's how all the brake hangar pins are secured in my 3/4" Friends Atlantic.
-Frank K.
apm
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Re: Progress on the 3/4" scale 0-8-0 switcher

Post by apm »

Old England wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 5:53 pm I decided to get on with the brake gear, beginning with the Westinghouse cylinders and the bracket that supports them. As they are clearly visible from the typical 3/4" scale viewer I thought they should look nice, then inspired by Jack's work on the J1e, they might as well be working brakes. Here are a few photos of the initial work. Drilling 14BA tapping holes (0.82mm) using a heavy duty turret mill required a fair degree of sensitivity! I've added a little low relief ribbing to the top cylinder heads, beginnings of this in the 3rd photo.
Things are nearly finished but haven't had time to take any photos yet, principally because I couldn't ignore the horrible noises from the head of the turret mill any longer. I bought it 2nd hand over 20 years ago and it's worked hard nearly every day since then. The videos by H&W Machine Repair and Rebuilding on YouTube were so helpful and I feel as if I know Barry quite well now :D Anyhow all rebuilt with new bearings and various bodges by previous owners rectified. Re-assembly was a nightmare: refitting the 3hp motor 5ft off the ground is not recommended for those in their 70th year, especially as due to the low ceiling it had to be fitted with the head tilted at 45° supporting the motor with one arm whilst struggling to get the drive belt over the pulley from underneath. Still it was worth it, sooo quiet now!
Do the Bridgeport heads flip 180°? On my Cincinnati toolmaster the one time I had to get the motor off to do some repairs in the head it was simple. I rotated the head 180°. I lifted the table to meet the head, I loosen the bolts I dropped the table with the motor on top and it worked perfectly. Is that possible on a Bridgeport?


On a side note why the heck are you using BA threads? I'm about to start on a British project and the plans for the darn thing is filled with BAs. Why are they still using those things? As if metric vs SAE was bad enough the British thread system drives me even crazier with all the different sizes. Does the rest of England still use BAs or is the thread system almost completely maintained today by the hobby over there? I suppose it speaks volumes for the live steam community if they can maintain an entire thread system of their own

BTW Is this going to be one of the Martin Evans designs? I have one of his 0-8-0s and it's a really nice engine.
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gwrdriver
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Re: Progress on the 3/4" scale 0-8-0 switcher

Post by gwrdriver »

apm wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 6:50 pm [snip] On a side note why the heck are you using BA threads?
Perhaps because he's located in the UK?

It shouldn't drive anyone crazy. It's like when I had my first car, a 1953 MG, and NO one would work on it . . . 'cause it was METRIC! But actually it wasn't Metric, but all the mechanics had in their heads that all them Furrin' cars wuz Metric and can't be worked on. So I learned to work on it myself and always wondered "Wot's all the fuss about?"
So I'm wondering what's all the fuss about? I'm sure there are dozens of board members who've made Imperial to BA to Metric and maybe to ME conversion charts which they'd be happy to share. Most folks pick the system they know, are equipped for, and which is most conveniently available (as BA would be in England), and convert everything to that and be done with it.

I'm building a British engine and aside from ME threads on fittings there's not a BA screw innit.

You can do one thing though as a favor to future owners . . . indicate on your drawings, or in a notebook which will travel with the engine to a new owner, what thread system you've used.
GWRdriver
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baggo
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Re: Progress on the 3/4" scale 0-8-0 switcher

Post by baggo »

Yes, BA is still the 'standard' thread on locos and other steam models over here even though it's rarely used in industry. Some electrical stuff may still use them.

Nearly all the drawings we work to specify BA and ME threads so, yes, that is what we use. Taps, dies and fixings are readily available so why change? You can replace BA with Metric fixings which are cheaper but the standard metric fixings look awful as the heads are huge compared to BA sizes and look really ugly on the smaller models. You can buy small headed metric bolts etc. from specialist suppliers e.g. in Germany but they are at least as expensive as the BA ones so I personally don't see any advantage to use them. As a side note, I believe that BA threads are metric anyway!

Some of the old locos that I work on have BSW fixings e.g. 1/16", 3/32" and 1/8" BSW because that was all there was when they were built. Fortunately, I've got all the taps and dies for those as well.

To us, some of the American size fixings used on models are very strange as well! We would replace them with BA sizes :D

John
Secretary of The National 2½" Gauge Association
Member of North West Liecestershire SME

http://www.modeng.johnbaguley.info
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Old England
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Re: Progress on the 3/4" scale 0-8-0 switcher

Post by Old England »

apm wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 6:50 pm
Old England wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 5:53 pm I decided to get on with the brake gear, beginning with the Westinghouse cylinders and the bracket that supports them. As they are clearly visible from the typical 3/4" scale viewer I thought they should look nice, then inspired by Jack's work on the J1e, they might as well be working brakes. Here are a few photos of the initial work. Drilling 14BA tapping holes (0.82mm) using a heavy duty turret mill required a fair degree of sensitivity! I've added a little low relief ribbing to the top cylinder heads, beginnings of this in the 3rd photo.
Things are nearly finished but haven't had time to take any photos yet, principally because I couldn't ignore the horrible noises from the head of the turret mill any longer. I bought it 2nd hand over 20 years ago and it's worked hard nearly every day since then. The videos by H&W Machine Repair and Rebuilding on YouTube were so helpful and I feel as if I know Barry quite well now :D Anyhow all rebuilt with new bearings and various bodges by previous owners rectified. Re-assembly was a nightmare: refitting the 3hp motor 5ft off the ground is not recommended for those in their 70th year, especially as due to the low ceiling it had to be fitted with the head tilted at 45° supporting the motor with one arm whilst struggling to get the drive belt over the pulley from underneath. Still it was worth it, sooo quiet now!
Do the Bridgeport heads flip 180°? On my Cincinnati toolmaster the one time I had to get the motor off to do some repairs in the head it was simple. I rotated the head 180°. I lifted the table to meet the head, I loosen the bolts I dropped the table with the motor on top and it worked perfectly. Is that possible on a Bridgeport?


On a side note why the heck are you using BA threads? I'm about to start on a British project and the plans for the darn thing is filled with BAs. Why are they still using those things? As if metric vs SAE was bad enough the British thread system drives me even crazier with all the different sizes. Does the rest of England still use BAs or is the thread system almost completely maintained today by the hobby over there? I suppose it speaks volumes for the live steam community if they can maintain an entire thread system of their own

BTW Is this going to be one of the Martin Evans designs? I have one of his 0-8-0s and it's a really nice engine.
No it's a Chinese heavy duty varispeed turret mill with a huge 3hp motor, I modified the motor pulley arrangement so that this can be dropped into the bottom of the casing. This allows the motor to be pulled out easier without fouling the belt. However for replacement by one person (me🙁) it's necessary to assemble the pulley unit onto the motor making it even heavier. Now if the machine head is vertical, replacing the motor is relatively easy; hooking the pulley into the belt. My ceiling is about 2" above the motor so 45° is the best option as some of the motor's weight can be precariously supported on the head belt casing whilst with one arm you fumble with the belt that you can't see. And no, the head won't swivel 180° , if only!
As to BA threads: The main reason I use them is the availability here in the UK of exquisitely CNC machined hex set screws as small as 14BA, 12BA and larger are available with heads one size smaller too. My model uses metric, model engineer and BA threads where I choose the most suitable. The BA ones are mostly cosmetic.
Technicaly we are metric in the UK but when I order metal stock for my business the stock sizes can be metric or imperial depending on where it was sourced. A bit annoying as next time I call them it will be the opposite system of measurement to the previous time!
I would not build a model to a standard design for the very reason you say, most of the designs are imperial. However in my day job I work in both systems depending on how old the machine I'm making parts for is, such is life!
No it's not the Martin Evans design, it's loosely based on the N&W S1a. I used Caribou wheel castings but they are modified as regards balance weights.
Hope all that makes sense 😁
Last edited by Old England on Fri Mar 31, 2023 12:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
David Powell
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Re: Progress on the 3/4" scale 0-8-0 switcher

Post by David Powell »

Here, in Canada, almost every system of threads can be found. We have just acquired another Caribou, this one was a complete running job 30 odd yrs ago, but after the owner died fell onto poor storage and became rusted solid.
An initial look around and partial dismantling shows a mixture of BA, North American, and Model Engineer threads.
For instance, 8 BA and 2/64 are so similar in size and appearance that I have to be VERY careful to ensure bolts always go back exactly where they came from.
Regards David Powell
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Old England
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Re: Progress on the 3/4" scale 0-8-0 switcher

Post by Old England »

gwrdriver wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 8:19 pm
apm wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 6:50 pm [snip] On a side note why the heck are you using BA threads?
Perhaps because he's located in the UK?

It shouldn't drive anyone crazy. It's like when I had my first car, a 1953 MG, and NO one would work on it . . . 'cause it was METRIC! But actually it wasn't Metric, but all the mechanics had in their heads that all them Furrin' cars wuz Metric and can't be worked on. So I learned to work on it myself and always wondered "Wot's all the fuss about?"
So I'm wondering what's all the fuss about? I'm sure there are dozens of board members who've made Imperial to BA to Metric and maybe to ME conversion charts which they'd be happy to share. Most folks pick the system they know, are equipped for, and which is most conveniently available (as BA would be in England), and convert everything to that and be done with it.

I'm building a British engine and aside from ME threads on fittings there's not a BA screw innit.

You can do one thing though as a favor to future owners . . . indicate on your drawings, or in a notebook which will travel with the engine to a new owner, what thread system you've used.
Agreed, it doesn't really matter! My drawings are very detailed and are updated as things get changed in the workshop, which happens quite often. Perhaps one day I'll put them all in PDF format, if I can remember. Now where did I put that cutter I had 2 minutes ago :D
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Old England
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Re: Progress on the 3/4" scale 0-8-0 switcher

Post by Old England »

baggo wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:11 am Yes, BA is still the 'standard' thread on locos and other steam models over here even though it's rarely used in industry. Some electrical stuff may still use them.

Nearly all the drawings we work to specify BA and ME threads so, yes, that is what we use. Taps, dies and fixings are readily available so why change? You can replace BA with Metric fixings which are cheaper but the standard metric fixings look awful as the heads are huge compared to BA sizes and look really ugly on the smaller models. You can buy small headed metric bolts etc. from specialist suppliers e.g. in Germany but they are at least as expensive as the BA ones so I personally don't see any advantage to use them. As a side note, I believe that BA threads are metric anyway!

Some of the old locos that I work on have BSW fixings e.g. 1/16", 3/32" and 1/8" BSW because that was all there was when they were built. Fortunately, I've got all the taps and dies for those as well.

To us, some of the American size fixings used on models are very strange as well! We would replace them with BA sizes :D

John
That is true Baggo, BA threads have the metric 60° thread form. I frequently come across Whitworth threads in some of the old factory machinery I'm called out to repair, but there could be metric on the same machine :lol:
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Old England
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Re: Progress on the 3/4" scale 0-8-0 switcher

Post by Old England »

I had a productive day at real work today so before I left the workshop I thought I'd try an idea while I was on a roll.
Pondering how to locate the brake hanger pivot pin (see above photo) in bed one night I came up with the solution seen in these photos; it was easy to make and it works a treat. I just need to drill and tap a hole in the back of each hanger to take a 10BA screw and I have loads of redundant stainless steel lock wire to make the clip, now we have stopped racing.
The pin pushes in and snaps into place but can be removed by pushing with a tool from the back.
A good day!
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