A good reliable injector for inch & half scale that works ????

This forum is dedicated to the Live Steam Hobbyist Community.

Moderators: cbrew, Harold_V

Pat Fahey
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:45 am

A good reliable injector for inch & half scale that works ????

Post by Pat Fahey »

Hi
I am asking this question for a friend of mine, that has a ground line locomotive,, the current injector that is on the locomotive now I think is a superscale,I could be wrong with the name, sorry.
The injector he has the locomotive will only pick up, at low pressure, say 60 to 80 psi, anything above that the injector,cuts out. He has a good water supply going to the injector, but once he starts throttling back on the water, the injector kicks back.
What he is looking for is more of a High pressure injector, or a injector that will pick up in all ranges, from 60 psi to 100 psi and will pump. The Steam valve from the steam manifold is not leaking, and his water connections are tight, and he has new check valves on the locomotive. Also the water in his side tanks, is always cold, because injectors do not like warm water.
Any suggestions ???? Thank Pat WLS.
Dave Bortz
Posts: 132
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 9:44 am
Location: North of Reading PA

Re: A good reliable injector for inch & half scale that works ????

Post by Dave Bortz »

Hi Pat;
Please identify the injector. Superscale injectors will work up to 150 lbs of inlet pressure. This sounds like an English injector as they often have pressure ranges they operate in. Also, there are three types of Superscale injectors that are sold, what type are you talking about ?

Please share some specifics.
Thanks
Dave
amadlinger
Posts: 174
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 8:18 pm
Location: Central NJ

Re: A good reliable injector for inch & half scale that works ????

Post by amadlinger »

Hi Pat,

I would wholeheartedly recommend either the Superscale Economy injector or Superscale Chicago injector for those operating conditions. I have personally operated both styles on my locomotive and on others' engines and can attest they will work the first time and every time from less than 60 psig to at least 135 psig. If the engine truly does have a Superscale injector already, perhaps there is an obstruction in the line or in the cones?

I will also mention that I had the privilege of testing one Dave's first injectors after he took over the Superscale business from Barry and can again attest that it worked exactly like the ones from Barry himself.

Sincerely,
Adam
User avatar
AnthonyDuarte
Posts: 491
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:46 am
Location: Orange, CA
Contact:

Re: A good reliable injector for inch & half scale that works ????

Post by AnthonyDuarte »

If the injector on there is truly a SuperScale injector it should work fine from 40-150psi. If it’s only working from 60-80psi then there is a problem somewhere somehow with the installation.
Anthony Duarte
http://www.EccentricEngineer.com
pat1027
Posts: 444
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 3:45 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: A good reliable injector for inch & half scale that works ????

Post by pat1027 »

Hi Pat,

This video might give some insight to what is going on. https://youtu.be/VPdvvu4g1Hw If you have a SuperScale injector and it is not working I'd look what else might be the problem.

If the injector is indeed the problem and some TLC doesn't clear it up look at Eccentric Engineer or SuperScale. I have both the Eccentric Engineer Standard and SuperScale economy. They both run well.

Pat
FLtenwheeler
Posts: 1594
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2003 8:47 am
Location: Florida, on the Lake Wales Ridge

Re: A good reliable injector for inch & half scale that works ????

Post by FLtenwheeler »

What type of valve are you using for the water supply? I have seen air leaks at the stem.

Tim
He who dies with the most unfinished projects: Should of put more time into their hobby.
User avatar
cbrew
Posts: 3161
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 12:17 pm
Location: Vancouver Wa

Re: A good reliable injector for inch & half scale that works ????

Post by cbrew »

absolutely need to see pictures,
I have used superscale and EE injectors and they both work great,
If it is not live steam. its not worth it.
User avatar
Bill Shields
Posts: 10459
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:57 am
Location: 39.367, -75.765
Contact:

Re: A good reliable injector for inch & half scale that works ????

Post by Bill Shields »

AnthonyDuarte wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 3:47 pm If the injector on there is truly a SuperScale injector it should work fine from 40-150psi. If it’s only working from 60-80psi then there is a problem somewhere somehow with the installation.
Now THERE'S A RECOMMENDATION !!
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: A good reliable injector for inch & half scale that works ????

Post by ccvstmr »

Pat...other than a partially plugged or dirty injector cone, most other injector problems have nothing to do with the injector...but instead are caused by issues preceding or following the injector in the plumbing, screens, air leaks (as already noted)...even a boiler check valve.

Would suggest you look at www.eccentricengineer.com website. There's some excellent material in the DOCUMENTATION section regarding troubleshooting injector issues. This info is equally applicable to all injectors, not just SS injectors or EE injectors.

Would agree, there's no reason why your subject injector should NOT work at higher pressures. There's got to be a problem there somewhere...your task is to isolate that and make corrections. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
User avatar
Charles T. McCullough
Posts: 383
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:25 pm

Re: A good reliable injector for inch & half scale that works ????

Post by Charles T. McCullough »

I'd bet on an air leak in the supply pipes. Air is thinner than water and a leak that air can go through may not be big enough to show as a leak with water dripping out. But if air gets sucked into the supply line, it can mess with the dynamics of the system. Air is compressible and that will reduce the effective energy of the system. Given that the system fails at higher pressure, I'd surmise that the leak is very tiny and only causes problems with the suction in the the supply pipes drawing in air at the higher pressures creating a draw of more water through the pipe, thus sucking in air. A clogged intake screen at the tender will exacerbate the problem if it keeps water from entering the pipe, thus sucking in air at some joint in the system. Even a tiny pinhole in a rubber hose between engine and tender can be the culprit. Pressurize the pipe (somehow! Might be more difficult than just tightening all joints and replacing all rubber hoses!) and go over all the joints and the entirety of all rubber hoses with soapy water and you'll find the leak.
Last edited by Charles T. McCullough on Sat Feb 18, 2023 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
AnthonyDuarte
Posts: 491
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:46 am
Location: Orange, CA
Contact:

Re: A good reliable injector for inch & half scale that works ????

Post by AnthonyDuarte »

Not starting until 60psi is most likely due to a very minuscule air leak between the water valve and injector. Air leak symptoms typically improve at higher pressure rather than worsen.

However, cutting out at 80psi is a bit more unusual. The only things that could cause this in order of likelihood would be:
1) steam valve is too small
2) water valve is too small
3) check valve or other fittings are too restrictive for the delivery rate
4) warm feedwater (putting this lower due to the little information we’ve been given)
5) obstruction in the steam nozzle
6) significant machining error in the steam nozzle (very unlikely)

That’s pretty much everything that comes to mind for why a superscale or any other miniature automatic injector would fail to work above 80psi. Of course if it turns out to be a British style model injector then all bets are off.
Anthony Duarte
http://www.EccentricEngineer.com
User avatar
Fender
Posts: 3084
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 8:33 pm
Location: Chattanooga TN

Re: A good reliable injector for inch & half scale that works ????

Post by Fender »

Don’t forget to check the little washer inside the injector. It can either be stuck or inserted upside down. Many of us have been bedevilled by this problem.
Dan Watson
Chattanooga, TN
Post Reply