How to make “fake” smoke for boiler

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Greg_Lewis
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Re: How to make “fake” smoke for boiler

Post by Greg_Lewis »

I like John's idea of running the engine on air. That's certainly worth a try.
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Drprez
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Re: How to make “fake” smoke for boiler

Post by Drprez »

ChooChooChris wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:46 pm try feeding fog juice via a copper pipe though the firebox into the flues and into the smokebox where it can sit open ended. Low cost and worth a quick test. copper, tubing, syringe or even just a cap on the copper and let the vaporization handle it. As long as it is under 550 degrees it should work so a container in the smoke box could even work fine maybe a container in a waterbath?
What do you mean a container in a water bath? How would this look or be setup in the smoke box? I’m not visually seeing. Please explain or post a drawing .

I have run a test with 3/16 tube through the fire box door and using a ball valve and syringe add juice then close the valve so only one end is open. It was smoking but not nearly as much as it should which is why I concluded the firebox was too hot.

I need some help to coil the copper in the smoke box and either put a reservoir in the smoke box although it’s very limited space. I did think about running a line from the cab where there could be a small reservoir under the boiler jacket and into the smoke box. It is the coil I just don’t know which route would be the best as my American is the small version so the smoke box is all of 6 inches.

Just for giggles I did get some paraffin oil which is actually different than mineral oil. The paraffin oil it will smoke regular true mineral oil that you buy at CVS does not smoke. Paraffin can also be heated to a much higher temperature without creating carcinogenic affects. I’m going to test it this weekend and see the results then I’ll determine if I’m gonna use paraffin or smoke juice in the coils
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Drprez
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Re: How to make “fake” smoke for boiler

Post by Drprez »

Greg_Lewis wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:39 pm I like John's idea of running the engine on air. That's certainly worth a try.
Yeah I didn’t think about that and convert my propane box car with a smoke machine and compressor. I will have to see how much converting there would be. As this is my locomotive that I use a lot. This smoke quest in on is just for a project and so I would hate to alter things I use to normally operate it .
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Drprez
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Re: How to make “fake” smoke for boiler

Post by Drprez »

NP317 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:54 am Can you inject the smoke fluid into the stack blower to get the effects you seek?
Then is becomes controllable with the blower valve.
RussN
This might be a good idea. I could put a tee off the nipple on the turret with a check valve for the fog juice to be introduced in the steam stream.

What is the aprox teno of wet steam right off the turret? Is it going to be close to the 350f of the boiler steam at 125psi?

Or does the temp rapidly drop soon as it’s no longer under pressure like it would be in the line from the turret to the blower in the smoke box?

Does anyone know ?

If it still is at 250-325 in the line to the blower this would work perfect. Provided the moisture done effect the fog juice . That I don’t know and would have to test but it has great potential. I like this idea best so far. Least amount of modifications and can control it from the cab.
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Re: How to make “fake” smoke for boiler

Post by Drprez »

Bill Shields wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:49 pm It this loco a coal burner or propane?
Propane
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NP317
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Re: How to make “fake” smoke for boiler

Post by NP317 »

Steam in cold weather for the filming, as others have mentioned.
Nothing to modify then.
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Re: How to make “fake” smoke for boiler

Post by Bill Shields »

still think the copper pipe from inside the smokebox up to the inside of the stack with fog propylene glycol is your best bet.

even if you have to shut OFF the propane and run on latent heat of the water in the boiler for filming...

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Re: How to make “fake” smoke for boiler

Post by ChooChooChris »

Two things. I would not be worried about the carcinogens from a light exposure outdoors in a once in a lifetime deal. It won't be the thing that gives you cancer.

Two the water bath idea. Basically a double boiler sitting inside the smoke box A metal cup with water in it and inside that a metal or ceramic cup with the smoke fluid and inside that just some metal that protrudes from the top of the cup to help transfer heat into it. This may help keep the fluid cooler while still allowing a small portion to heat up. Most smoke fluid works at 400 degrees iirc and breaks down at 500. It may work at lower temps as well but I do not know. Maybe try boiling some on the stove?

Additionally if too much heat is the issue you could build up pressure and lower your flame to near nothing while filming. You should have plenty of steam for short film runs.
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Re: How to make “fake” smoke for boiler

Post by Pontiacguy1 »

Why not run your smoke through either you blower line or your hollow stay up into the smoke box instead of through the firebox?
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Drprez
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Re: How to make “fake” smoke for boiler

Post by Drprez »

So I did some testing. I ran the blower line to a fog juice reservoir like an oiler. The hot steam goes in mixes and is j traduced into the blower line. … it sorta worked.

Found out:
1) the temp from the steam off the blower line is perfect temp to make it fog. Not too hot not too cold
2)it will work with limited results see below

If I had the blower on at normal very little fog was produced. However if I closed the valve to almost no steam it would produce excessive smoke just like I wanted.

Here is how it was connected. I had globe calves to isolate my fog juice so I could operate normally with out it in the line.
Connected with a single tube
Connected with a single tube
It only has one tube for both the in and out. I’m thinking this is causing the problem and the steam is preventing it from being able to exit.

My question is could I make it so the steam passed through the fog juice with an in and a different out ? My worry is that it will act like a Venturi and draw the fog juice out faster then needed causing excessive use of the juice.

Could I connect it like this online?  I would still put a bypass and be able to isolate it with globe valves.  But this would be the basic flow .  Would this work?
Could I connect it like this online? I would still put a bypass and be able to isolate it with globe valves. But this would be the basic flow . Would this work?
Does anyone know if this will be the case or would it be more controlled like a lubricator inline? Or how would I have to modify it to do that?

Should I put the steam pipe through the juice tank and have just a pin hole in it? Or should it go in one side mix in the juice reservoir and out the other side?


UPDATE- this setup did not work the flow was too fast and didn’t allow it to heat long enough. The best solution scroll down a bit.
Last edited by Drprez on Fri Oct 14, 2022 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bill Shields
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Re: How to make “fake” smoke for boiler

Post by Bill Shields »

is this 'fake smoke' you are going to do once or twice -> or is it going to be a permanent fixture on your loco?

makes a big difference with respect to how you handle 'fog injection'

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Re: How to make “fake” smoke for boiler

Post by Pipescs »

NOTE TO ALL,

This is not a serious suggestion. Members from the south may remember in the sixties an attachment that dad put on the mower. it was a replacement muffler with tube coming from a tank with an adjustment valve.

My dad would then have us boys push it around the yard just before a cookout to rid the yard of mosquitos.

The smoke was dense white being produced with DDT.

ONCE AGAIN: JUST AN INPUT TO LIGHTEN UP THE CONVERSATION.
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