Number of fire-ups for a steam locomotive?

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Steam Engine Dan
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Re: Number of fire-ups for a steam locomotive?

Post by Steam Engine Dan »

Marty_Knox wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:51 am
Steam Engine Dan wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:29 am
ben, what happens with the full size doesn't always apply to our scale. remember our boilers are built to a 10 times safety factor where the full size boiler is only built to 4 times safety factor.

Dan, most boilers are not built to a factor of safety of 10. Some components may come out to that, more common is a factor of safety around 6 or 7.
But sometimes things are overlooked and end up with a factor of safety less than 4. The focus on boilers in generally a good thing, but I constantly remind people we don't need to blow up a boiler to get hurt in this hobby. We should be thinking about safety across the board.
really, huh now i learned somethin. i remember hearing a live steamer from PLS say that they were so i had assumed all these years that was true. so a 7 times safety factor. im gonna write that down. thats still really good marty. thanks for bringing me up to speed. :D
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Benjamin Maggi
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Re: Number of fire-ups for a steam locomotive?

Post by Benjamin Maggi »

Thank you Marty and Dick!
"One cannot learn to swim without getting his feet wet." - Benjamin Maggi
- Building: 7.25" gauge "Sweet Pea" named "Catherine"
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Fender
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Re: Number of fire-ups for a steam locomotive?

Post by Fender »

Dick_Morris wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:42 pm 1472 hours is for locomotives covered by the FRA regulation. For locomotives not regulated by the FRA, state rules apply. A railroad not connected to the general rail system *may* only be covered by state boiler regulations.
There was a tourist railroad in West Virginia that did not connect with any other railroad, which fell under state boiler rules. My understanding is that, additionally, it had no grade crossings with public streets or highways. Such a grade crossing would have also put it under FRA jurisdiction.
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Bruce_Mowbray
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Re: Number of fire-ups for a steam locomotive?

Post by Bruce_Mowbray »

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/s ... /subpart-B

That pretty much says it all.

1 service day = Fire in the firebox AND anything more than 1 psi on the pressure gauge

The locomotive boiler must be hydrotested, entered and examined at every annual inspection. (FRA requirement)

A form 4 inspection report must be completed at 1472 service days or 15 calendar years, whichever comes first
Bruce Mowbray
Springville & Southern RR
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Fender
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Re: Number of fire-ups for a steam locomotive?

Post by Fender »

A curious exemption from these boiler rules is that maintenance-of-way equipment such as rotary snowplows, wrecking cranes and pile drivers are not subject to the same rules as locomotives. Not that there are many examples of such equipment still around, but my understanding is that the OY snowplow on the Cumbres & Toltec (for example) is not subject to the 1472 day / 15 year rules.
Dan Watson
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Dick_Morris
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Re: Number of fire-ups for a steam locomotive?

Post by Dick_Morris »

On another board a suggestion was made that an external hot water boiler could be used to pre-heat the water in the locomotive boiler to near boiling if the boiler is vented so there is no pressure in order to potentially decrease the number of service days and give a more gradual warm up. I can't say whether there are any issues with this procedure, but thought it was an interesting suggestion.

As a long time (but now retired) bureaucrat I learned whenever one wants to understand a regulation the context contained in the definitions and applicability need to be checked. They are in the general section at https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/s ... -230?toc=1
318J
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Re: Number of fire-ups for a steam locomotive?

Post by 318J »

On another board a suggestion was made that an external hot water boiler could be used to pre-heat the water in the locomotive boiler to near boiling if the boiler is vented so there is no pressure in order to potentially decrease the number of service days and give a more gradual warm up. I can't say whether there are any issues with this procedure, but thought it was an interesting suggestion.
You wouldn't even need to vent excess steam to prevent pressure build-up, as the FRA considers a service day as "steam pressure above atmospheric in the boiler, and a fire in the firebox" (unless you've got a fireless, in which case only the first part will qualify as a service day, but none run in the US, so that's splitting hairs).

You could, and some people have, hooked up their locomotive to external boiler systems and kept the engine at or above boiling point for extended period of time. This is useful for extended fireups to ease stresses on the boiler, and cut the amount of fireup time required once the crew actually shows up. You could even take the engine up to a certain steam pressure with this external system, and theoretically keep it there indefinitely- until you light the fire, no service days are used.
-Sam
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"Preserving the Past and Ensuring Our Future"
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