Exhaust Manifold - Modern Solution

This forum is dedicated to the Live Steam Hobbyist Community.

Moderators: cbrew, Harold_V

User avatar
SPSteam2491
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:30 pm
Location: Mukwonago, WI

Exhaust Manifold - Modern Solution

Post by SPSteam2491 »

When running my wife's 1" Pacific last fall, we noticed a hard sounding exhaust and the engine was firing hard even when hauling minimal load on flat ground. Reviewing the problem, the exhaust tee was just a straight through tee that didn't divert the exhaust up to the stack and the cylinders were fighting each other.

With minimal space available and a short turn around needed, I turned to 3D CAD and metal 3D printing to fix the problem. A design was made up in SolidWorks to allow separate flows until the exhaust is in the vertical orientation and to review the cross section throughout to not cause a pinch point. The picture below is the end result of the modeling.
Cross Section View
Cross Section View
The model was sent to Shapeways and printed in bronze fused stainless steel. Upon receiving the part, a few dimensions were undersized and needed to be bored out. Note the brass pipe on top was not 3D printed and was pressed in and Loctite 680 was used to retain it.
Boring Hole
Boring Hole
After boring, Teflon sleeves were pressed in and bored for the flanges to better seal the part and allow for movement when heated/cooled.
Teflon sleeve
Teflon sleeve
The final result was exactly as designed and fit well within the engine.
Final Assembly
Final Assembly
The blower and exhaust ring were reattached to the top and the engine was ran on air to review the performance.
Installed in engine
Installed in engine
Where previously the exhaust was loud and noticeable, the bark was drastically reduced (with no load) but the airflow on the exhaust was increased. (I wish I took airflow measurements before the modification to see the change) The engine is going to be fired up this Memorial Day at St. Croix and will advise on the performance differences (as well if the wife approves of the fix :lol: )
Thanks
John LaFavor
Pacific Design Shops
User avatar
Bill Shields
Posts: 10560
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:57 am
Location: 39.367, -75.765
Contact:

Re: Exhaust Manifold - Modern Solution

Post by Bill Shields »

A modern solution to an age old problem.

Very nice
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
User avatar
Dick_Morris
Posts: 2847
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 2:09 pm
Location: Anchorage, AK

Re: Exhaust Manifold - Modern Solution

Post by Dick_Morris »

Today, I would probably 3D print and investment cast an exhaust nozzle per your design. In the past I used a less elegant design. It had two copper sweat elbows with half of one leg removed on each. I then silver soldered the two halves together to form a wye. I have since found that a long turn elbow is available if you look hard enough which would give a more gradual transistion. https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07 ... UTF8&psc=1
User avatar
SPSteam2491
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:30 pm
Location: Mukwonago, WI

Re: Exhaust Manifold - Modern Solution

Post by SPSteam2491 »

I reviewed the two copper pipes as an option. If I had more time available, I would have reviewed that route in more detail. From 3D modeling to finished product installed in the engine, it took ~3 hours of labor. For a one off design, that's a quick turnaround.
Thanks
John LaFavor
Pacific Design Shops
Mountaineer
Posts: 276
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:45 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Exhaust Manifold - Modern Solution

Post by Mountaineer »

Actually sounds like something that many folks (including me) might buy if was an investment casting. Would suggest three sizes- for 1” scale, 1.6” scale, and 2.5” scale.

Mountaineer
User avatar
rmac
Posts: 793
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:48 am
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

Re: Exhaust Manifold - Modern Solution

Post by rmac »

From 3D modeling to finished product installed in the engine, it took ~3 hours of labor.
Not bad! Just out of curiosity, how long did it take for Shapeways to make the part and get it back to you?

-- Russell Mac
User avatar
SPSteam2491
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:30 pm
Location: Mukwonago, WI

Re: Exhaust Manifold - Modern Solution

Post by SPSteam2491 »

3 weeks with standard production times. I could have paid more and had it in 1-2 weeks but didn't need it that quickly to justify the increased price.
Thanks
John LaFavor
Pacific Design Shops
User avatar
SPSteam2491
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:30 pm
Location: Mukwonago, WI

Re: Exhaust Manifold - Modern Solution

Post by SPSteam2491 »

To give an idea on price, it was less than $200 with standard production times from Shapeways. For that price and how quickly it would be to modify the design to fit specific applications, it's arguably better just sticking with the 3D printed version rather than doing investment castings. I agree that investment casting would be better for larger production runs, but I don't see the demand there to justify the tooling. Along with the design challenges of determining a design that would fit various applications in each scale.
Thanks
John LaFavor
Pacific Design Shops
jcbrock
Posts: 511
Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 7:50 pm
Location: Oregon

Re: Exhaust Manifold - Modern Solution

Post by jcbrock »

We'll have to discuss this at the Triennial. Looking at your throttle are you using a low-temp ball valve all the way to the front of your smokebox to keep it out of the heat?
John Brock
User avatar
SPSteam2491
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:30 pm
Location: Mukwonago, WI

Re: Exhaust Manifold - Modern Solution

Post by SPSteam2491 »

The ball valve is between the boiler and the smokestack on the top half of the smokebox. I'd have to ask Marty what kind of ball valve it is (we got the 1" Pacific from him) but it has worked great so far.
Thanks
John LaFavor
Pacific Design Shops
Marty_Knox
Posts: 1728
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2003 6:50 pm
Location: Michigan, USA

Re: Exhaust Manifold - Modern Solution

Post by Marty_Knox »

jcbrock wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 12:09 pm We'll have to discuss this at the Triennial. Looking at your throttle are you using a low-temp ball valve all the way to the front of your smokebox to keep it out of the heat?
John, I don't think the valve in the picture is his throttle valve. I think it is just something he used for a test. The throttle valve I gave them with the locomotive was a Parker V500P-04-3. It has a forged brass body with a stainless steel ball and stem.
User avatar
SPSteam2491
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:30 pm
Location: Mukwonago, WI

Re: Exhaust Manifold - Modern Solution

Post by SPSteam2491 »

Thanks Marty! And thanks for pointing out the test setup, I misread the previous question.

That piping setup is just for hooking the cylinders up to air. It's bent to allow the boiler to rest on the engine and place the inlet in front of the smokebox.
Thanks
John LaFavor
Pacific Design Shops
Post Reply