Has anyone built a "New" Shay in 7 1/2" ?

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ToddMiller
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:51 pm

Has anyone built a "New" Shay in 7 1/2" ?

Post by ToddMiller »

I am toying with building a 7- 1/2" Shay. I like the New Shay for its looks and because there is one on display on the Olympic Peninsula that I used to play on as a wee lad. I see Hiraoka's New Shay book is available and from reading old posts I get the impression that it isn't really straight forward to just scale it up from his book.

I have also been looking at the Allen Models Shay and was wondering whether some of those castings could be used on a New Shay. I emailed them that question and they suggested I buy the plans and see what is would work. I may do that but thought I would ask here if anyone has done it.

I am currently restoring a 1920 Stanley Steamer that I am about a year out on finishing, but it is fun to imagine my next project.

Thanks Todd
JohnR
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2003 8:08 pm
Location: Northern Ohio USA

Re: Has anyone built a "New" Shay in 7 1/2" ?

Post by JohnR »

Currently building a shay similar to Mich Cal style engine by Bill Harris of my own design.
Most of the running gear is done up to the engine.
Working on the engine linkage currently.
Next step is the boiler.
Haven't quite decided whether to go propane or coal fired.
One thing I know there are more part with this engine than my
Sweet William or E-6.
If I have a chance I will post some pictures if I can get one of my
children to take some pictures.
Flip phone not the greatest.
rrnut-2
Posts: 691
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:40 pm
Location: Bennington, NH

Re: Has anyone built a "New" Shay in 7 1/2" ?

Post by rrnut-2 »

I built one to the old book. I added 5" to the length; 2" to the firebox and the other 3" to the water tank. Steams like crazy, but the water tank isn't big enough. Right now, I am adding the third truck and brakes.

Jim B
hoppercar
Posts: 616
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:09 pm

Re: Has anyone built a "New" Shay in 7 1/2" ?

Post by hoppercar »

Built one from kozos old book years ago, scaled it up to 11/2....worked out pretty well, dad sold it, loaded it onto a private jet at Purdue airport.....probably the only shay to ever fly first class
MoPac5324
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri May 21, 2021 8:27 am

Re: Has anyone built a "New" Shay in 7 1/2" ?

Post by MoPac5324 »

I had a mogul that flew on that same plane. Marty will recall that…..
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shayloco
Posts: 264
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 11:00 am
Location: Rhode Island

Re: Has anyone built a "New" Shay in 7 1/2" ?

Post by shayloco »

Don't recall seeing a "New" Shay in 7-1/2. I built the original Kozo Shay in 7-1/4, then made it dual gauge. At the time I chose the Kozo Shay over the Schroeder (now Allen) Shay because I was not confident I could machine the castings. So I started out with the Kozo Shay and later realized I would have saved a lot of time with the Schroeder castings, which were reasonably priced. There is scaling up info in the original Shay book so I assume there is also scaling up info in the New Shay book. However, that info doesn't cover everything. And some things that look fine in 3/4" scale do not look fine at 1-1/2" scale. I ended up using the Schroeder designs for the universal joints, brakes (there were no brakes in the original Kozo Shay book) and when I decided to add a 3rd truck I used the Schroeder tender design. The cylinders in a scaled up Kozo Shay are a little small for a 3 truck Shay. I cannot spin the wheels with the Kozo Shay. In my opinion the Schroeder Shay and castings make a very proven design and there is no scaling required.

I was able to acquire the Schroeder Shay built by Nelson Locomotive Works:
http://nelsonslocomotive.com/Shay/shay.htm

There is a lot of excellent information on Nelson's site. Since you are contemplating a Shay I strongly suggest you download as much of the site as you can (look at the "wget" command for downloading complete web sites) while it is available.

The major difference between the Kozo and Schroeder Shays are that the Schroeder Shay has more power because of the larger cylinders. Both locos are dual gauge by threading the axles on one side. Changeover takes about 20 minutes. The Schroeder Shay can also switch between propane and oil firing in about 20 minutes. They have both been reliable locomotives and can push quite a few loaded logging cars and people up the long grades at Mill Creek Central. Both Shays use steam apply and steam release brakes, like the prototype. They are very effective.

I have 3 geared locos in steam so the ex-Nelson Locomotive Works Shay is for sale. Here are my two Shays at Mill Creek Central:
TwoShaysAtMCC.jpg
ToddMiller
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:51 pm

Re: Has anyone built a "New" Shay in 7 1/2" ?

Post by ToddMiller »

Shayloco, thanks for the information. I have been looking at the Nelson website a lot and will download it. It is very useful. I just ordered Kozo's New Shay book and I'll dive into what it says. If I go with Kozo's I will definitely look into using some of the Schroeder- Allen castings. I like the idea of savings some time, I want to finish this while I am still above ground.

If the Kozo New Shay looks too daunting I think I would probably go with the Schroeder, like you say. it is a proven design and is handsome.

I also contacted John Buckwalters about plans and castings for his Shay, it has an even bigger engine than the Schroeder. He responded and said he is in the process of transferring ownership of the Shay parts and drawings and I will have to wait for more information. That shouldn't be problem as I won't be starting right away.
Todd
ToddMiller
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Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:51 pm

Re: Has anyone built a "New" Shay in 7 1/2" ?

Post by ToddMiller »

JohnR Thanks for the reply. I would be interested in seeing pictures of your progress if you get a chance.

Todd
Berkman
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Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: Has anyone built a "New" Shay in 7 1/2" ?

Post by Berkman »

I think going the Allen route would be massively easier with the castings and not having to scale it all. I can' t think of a reason for wanting to go the kozo route, so many of his methods, setups, tips could be applied to the allen engine.
rrnut-2
Posts: 691
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:40 pm
Location: Bennington, NH

Re: Has anyone built a "New" Shay in 7 1/2" ?

Post by rrnut-2 »

To make my wife's shay dual gauge, I keyed the axles on the non-geared side and used setscrews. I also put dimples in the axles for the setscrews in the 7 1/4 and the 7 1/2 locations to make gauging easier.

Jim B
ToddMiller
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:51 pm

Re: Has anyone built a "New" Shay in 7 1/2" ?

Post by ToddMiller »

Jim B that sounds like a good idea, I will remember it if I go ahead with this project.

Todd
ToddMiller
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:51 pm

Re: Has anyone built a "New" Shay in 7 1/2" ?

Post by ToddMiller »

Berkman- the reason I am considering the Kozo New Shay is that I like the looks of it and there is one not too far away from where I live that I can look at in person to get measurements and details. I like the idea of castings so I will see if making sort of a hybrid makes sense. If not I like the Allen Shay too, just not quite as much.

Todd
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