C.P. Huntington

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Mjordan
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Re: C.P. Huntington

Post by Mjordan » Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:51 am

I found this website article about the Little Engines Huntington a gentleman made. I contacted him but he didnt want to talk much. Not sure why, but anyways, in the photos I see (and assume) is Leo Myers on his Huntington, and two photos down is my grandfathers Huntington when he used to run at RLS in the late 80s early 90s. I think his last run was in 96 before moving to seattle WA to be close to my great grandparents.

I think it’s pretty cool to see all these engines on the same page together.

http://www.trainweb.org/jeffhartmann/CPH_models.html

Mjordan
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Re: C.P. Huntington

Post by Mjordan » Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:10 am

Fender wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 6:11 pm
When you come to Eagle Point (hint, hint) for the CSME meet, I can set you up with a riding car. Send me an email to fender2982 (at) yahoo.com and I’ll send a map to our railroad. The hooks/eyebolts are usually placed about four inches to the left and/or right of the coupler centerline. We might be able to set up a solid drawbar between the loco and riding car, which would obviate the need for a safety chain (at least on EPRR it would).

Not sure if you see it or have checked but I sent over an email to you.

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NP317
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Re: C.P. Huntington

Post by NP317 » Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:06 pm

Referring to Mjordan's photo on page 2 (this thread) of his CP Huntington next to the SP GS-4:

Below is an original undated black & white print given to me by my Grandfather, who worked for the SP in California. He was the Sheet Metal man in the Dunsmuir roundhouse, and his son, my uncle, was a boiler maker at the Roseville Shops.

I do not know the date of this photo showing GS-4 #4412 and the CP Huntington at Sacramento, but it probably was taken just before the rebuilt CP Huntington went on display under the shed in front of the Sacramento SP Passenger Depot, shown in the included color post card. I sent that post card to my siblings in 1959, and we all used to climb on the Cab Forward that was also on display there. Both of those locomotives were placed in the California State Railroad Museum in 1982, and are still there.

These two photos are framed and reside in my own Locomotive Shop.
Enjoy.
RussN
SP Locos.jpg
Last edited by NP317 on Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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gwrdriver
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Re: C.P. Huntington

Post by gwrdriver » Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:09 pm

Mjordan wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:51 am
I see (and assume) is Leo Myers on his Huntington
I agree, that is Leo Myers (5th photo down.)
GWRdriver
Nashville TN

Mjordan
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Re: C.P. Huntington

Post by Mjordan » Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:16 pm

NP317 wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:06 pm
Referring to Mjordan's photo on page 2 (this thread) of his CP Huntington next to the SP GS-4:

Below is an original undated black & white print given to me by my Grandfather, who worked for the SP in California. He was the Sheet Metal man in the Dunsmuir roundhouse, and his son, my uncle, was a boiler maker at the Roseville Shops.

I do not know the date of this photo showing GS-4 #4412 and the CP Huntington at Sacramento, but it probably was taken just before the rebuilt CP Huntington went on display under the shed in front of the Sacramento SP Passenger Depot, shown in the included color post card. I sent that post card to my siblings in 1959, and we all used to climb on the Cab Forward that was also on display there. Both of those locomotives were placed in the California State Railroad Museum in 1982, and are still there.

These two photos are framed and reside in my own Locomotive Shop.
Enjoy.
RussN

SP Locos.jpg
That’s so cool! I have some old converted video footage from when my grandfather did the photo shoot with the “daylight” model as well. I will attach another picture they took, as well as a photo I found on the web of the cab-forward engine I think you are talking about.

Mjordan
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Re: C.P. Huntington

Post by Mjordan » Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:19 pm

Sorry. I failed to attach properly..
Attachments
22616A02-8A7E-48B0-9126-D207E80F264A.jpeg
50F7FBFB-E67D-407D-90A5-3BE80B56F8E9.jpeg

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NP317
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Re: C.P. Huntington

Post by NP317 » Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:16 pm

Very nice photos! It is fun to provide your CP Huntington model with historic perspective.
Perhaps your grandfather was inspired by the SP prototype photos to do his model photo shoot!
RussN

Pontiacguy1
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Re: C.P. Huntington

Post by Pontiacguy1 » Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:16 pm

I believe that Jeff has moved and no longer owns the C.P. Huntington that he was building. His was built using a steel boiler. He had it operational at one point, and I believe that he had to move and was storing it somewhere else, and ended up putting it up for sale. I'm not sure if it ever sold or not... It's been a little while. I used to communicate with him somewhat regularly, but I haven't heard from him in a while now.

I sent him two of those pictures for his website. The bottom picture, I'm not sure where I saw that or got it. The 4th picture from the top is a picture that was displayed in the depot at the Annetta Valley and Western track located in Annetta, Texas which is just outside of Fort Worth. I saw the picture up there, and took a picture of the picture. That's what is on the webpage. Nobody that was there knew anything about that locomotive at all, or even when or where the picture was taken. Someone may have talked about a small private track somewhere in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, but I can't really remember too much and nobody was real sure about it anyway.

Yes, photo 5 is of Leo and his 4-2-4. He took that thing to a lot of train meets back in the 1960s through the 1980s. There are photos of him running that thing at early Mid-South meets over at Austin Barr's track in Arkansas, and at some of the first meets held in Maury County Park. He always rode on top of a L.E. Old-time box car, which you can see in the photo. Little Engines used to sell a kit for an old-time box car that was made up of Aluminum Castings, and used arch bar trucks. It was designed to be able to be used as a riding car, pretty much to go along with that C.P. Huntington locomotive, and that's what he used. It may be the only one of those cars that I have ever seen actually running. It really was pretty small, only about 3 1/2 or 4 feet long if I recall correctly.

Mjordan
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Re: C.P. Huntington

Post by Mjordan » Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:56 pm

Pontiacguy1 wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:16 pm
I believe that Jeff has moved and no longer owns the C.P. Huntington that he was building. His was built using a steel boiler. He had it operational at one point, and I believe that he had to move and was storing it somewhere else, and ended up putting it up for sale. I'm not sure if it ever sold or not... It's been a little while. I used to communicate with him somewhat regularly, but I haven't heard from him in a while now.

I sent him two of those pictures for his website. The bottom picture, I'm not sure where I saw that or got it. The 4th picture from the top is a picture that was displayed in the depot at the Annetta Valley and Western track located in Annetta, Texas which is just outside of Fort Worth. I saw the picture up there, and took a picture of the picture. That's what is on the webpage. Nobody that was there knew anything about that locomotive at all, or even when or where the picture was taken. Someone may have talked about a small private track somewhere in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, but I can't really remember too much and nobody was real sure about it anyway.

Yes, photo 5 is of Leo and his 4-2-4. He took that thing to a lot of train meets back in the 1960s through the 1980s. There are photos of him running that thing at early Mid-South meets over at Austin Barr's track in Arkansas, and at some of the first meets held in Maury County Park. He always rode on top of a L.E. Old-time box car, which you can see in the photo. Little Engines used to sell a kit for an old-time box car that was made up of Aluminum Castings, and used arch bar trucks. It was designed to be able to be used as a riding car, pretty much to go along with that C.P. Huntington locomotive, and that's what he used. It may be the only one of those cars that I have ever seen actually running. It really was pretty small, only about 3 1/2 or 4 feet long if I recall correctly.
Do you know if Leo still runs his Huntington or if it’s still around? I think it would be cool to have two on the same track. (Assuming this one works properly).

I think I saw Jeff’s Huntington for sale on DLS earlier 2020. I didn’t know it was his at the time but looks like the same as his webpage. Didn’t know it was a steel boiler. Speaking of which, which metal is best for boiler making? Copper or steel?

I’ve tested everything on air, and everything works sofar. So hopefully it doesn’t take much to make operational. I have a picture of the riding car my grandfather used. It’s a gondola with two seats. Coal drawer on the first seat. Water tank and battery for front headlight. It does have running lights that are functional on the turbine generator. I’ll attach the photos.
Attachments
93029C4B-887D-485E-9B8B-BAFD87E6D414.jpeg
23869DCF-419D-4CAC-81C0-1EA01F6B608A.png

Pontiacguy1
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Re: C.P. Huntington

Post by Pontiacguy1 » Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:45 am

Unless something has happened that has damaged the boiler or other parts of the running gear in some way, then it should not be too much trouble getting it back into operation. It did run successfully in the past, so unless something has been damaged in some way, it should be able to run successfully again.

Leo Myers is dead, having died several years ago now. I can't remember exactly when. Most of his locomotives are displayed around the St. Louis area. NKP765 said that his C.P. Huntington locomotive and a few others are displayed at the Drury Inn located in downtown St. Louis right next to the St. Louis Union Station. I have no idea the arrangement that was made with the family to display them, or who actually owns them. If I had to guess, I would say that they will likely be on permanent display. He built stuff in both 1" scale and 1 1/2" scale. Leo is most famous for building 1" scale models of the three locomotives involved in the Great Locomotive Chase during the civil war: The General, the Texas and the Yonah.

You asked about boiler materials and which is best. That is a very involved question and one which takes more input information. It's like asking which is better: A Ford F350 or a Honda Accord. The answer depends on what you need it to do. If I'm traveling long distances with passengers, and I want the least cost to drive, then the Accord would be the best choice. If I need to haul a trailer or anything heavy, or go off-road, and I'm not worried about efficiency so much, then the F350 would be the choice. Maybe that's not a good analogy, but it's the best I could come up with right now.

MOST (not all) of the smaller locomotives use copper boilers. Most of the larger locomotives use steel boiler with copper or steel flues. In the smaller scales, it's almost 100% Copper boilers. 1/2" scale (2 1/2" gauge) is pretty much all copper boilers. 3/4" scale (3 1/2" gauge) is mostly copper except for maybe some of the larger locomotives like a Northern or Hudson, which may use a welded steel boiler. In 1" scale (4 3/4" or 5" gauge), it's probably pretty evenly split, with smaller locomotives using copper boilers and larger ones using steel. In 1 1/2" scale (7 1/4" or 7 1/2" gauge), it's majority steel boilers, and usually only the smallest locomotives in that scale/gauge would use copper boilers, like your 4-2-4.

Steel boilers are less efficient and can suffer from corrosion. However they are a lot cheaper to build than a copper boiler, especially the larger you go. They are also a lot heavier and more forgiving than a copper boiler. Copper boilers don't have the corrosion problems like steel boilers do, they can transfer heat better making them more efficient, they are made from thinner materials, and are lighter. They also cost a whole lot more, and the cost grows exponentially the larger you go. The fact that most steel boilers are made from 1/4" or 5/16" thick steel, and copper is going to be about 1/3rd that thickness, is one of the major reasons why smaller locomotives using smaller fireboxes and smaller water legs use copper and the larger locomotives use steel. I can't say which one is best, because you need to know what it goes on first. MOST of the C.P. Huntington and L.E. American locomotives were built using copper boilers, but there have been several that have run successfully with steel boilers too.

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gwrdriver
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Re: C.P. Huntington

Post by gwrdriver » Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:57 am

Scott,
Up to a certain point in time, when they ceased to be available, or when the quality became so poor they weren't worth the trouble, I'd say most LE Americans and Huntingtons used LE's bronze firebox casting.
GWRdriver
Nashville TN

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Fender
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Re: C.P. Huntington

Post by Fender » Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:03 am

There are a couple of other considerations in the steel vs. copper boiler equation. Many LE boilers from the 1960s (approximate date) used a bronze casting for the rear section of the boiler rather than copper. Also many were assembled using a low-silver phos-copper brazing alloy. Not all of them but some. It turns out that many of these castings were defective, and LE stopped offering them. Likewise, it was learned that the low-silver brazing alloy disintegrated in the presence of sulfur fumes from coal firing. If a boiler is all copper (not a casting) and is assembled with high-silver brazing rod, neither of these are a concern.
Traditionally, “small” boilers were copper and “large” boilers steel (although the majority of steel boilers use rolled-in copper tubes) and this is still largely true. However, the equation has shifted more towards steel, for several reasons: 1. Price and availability of copper tube and sheet, 2. Fewer people having the skill and equipment needed to assemble and silver braze the boiler, and 3. Greater access to steel welding equipment and availability of skills. So, increasingly, it is feasible for smaller boilers such as yours to be made from steel.
With good management of water chemistry and regular cleaning, a steel boiler can last a long time.
Dan Watson

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