Southern Railways Ps-4 construction info

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thunderskunk
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Re: Southern Railways Ps-4 construction info

Post by thunderskunk » Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:00 pm

Is the 425 USRA? I think I’ve got my wires crossed.
"We'll cross that bridge once we realize nobody ever built one."

Berkman
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Re: Southern Railways Ps-4 construction info

Post by Berkman » Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:03 pm

I don't think so, maybe loosely based on a USRA light or as a copy etc, but I don't think it's "as USRA" as the ps4 is above.

michaellynn2
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Re: Southern Railways Ps-4 construction info

Post by michaellynn2 » Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:05 pm

My passion over the many years has been to have a close representation of the Southern Ps4. The first thing I did was to get the prints and visit the Smithsonian Museum of American history. Wow, it has been a long journey. It was 10 years before I pulled my first train on a club track. I did make some compromises on its construction for those who have asked how I did it. The best part though, has been going back and amending some of those compromises. The Little Engines design was the ticket for me to get it started.

I did build a Hodges Trailing Truck from scratch. It was a must to have on my 1401. The working feedwater heater really helped on making steam a breeze. I do not have a axle pump, but the two injectors do the job along with a hand pump in the tender for an emergency. Anyway, I have seen a lot of folks wanting to build one of these beautiful ladies and I wanted to chime in.
michael george

Berkman
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Re: Southern Railways Ps-4 construction info

Post by Berkman » Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:38 am

You run your injectors through the feedwater heater? I'd think that would present issues.
Last edited by Berkman on Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

michaellynn2
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Re: Southern Railways Ps-4 construction info

Post by michaellynn2 » Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:45 am

025.JPG
That is a great question about the injectors. No, I do not run the injectors through the feed water heater. When I built the locomotive, I intended for nothing to be dummy. I want a working feedwater pump to supply water through thru the feedwater heater and then into the boiler. I use the hand pump in the tender to pump water through the feedwater heater until I put a working pump on the locomotive. As I run the locomotive, I will every few minutes give the tenders hand pump a half dozen strokes and that pumps super hot water into the boiler. The feedwater heater works extremely well. It will get so hot you cannot put your hands on it. By it being mounted on the top of the smokebox it absorbs a lot of heat from the smokeboxes gases.

I built the feedwater heater to be extra strong and it take hard use under any condition. When I do a hydro test on the boiler, the water is pumped thru the feedwater heater and then on to the boiler. So both the feedwater heater is tested along with the boiler.

To supply the boiler with water I also use the injectors a lot also. Since I do not have a working feedwater pump on the 1401 yet, it would work a person to exhaustion using the feedwater system alone. One injector works great at pressures of 40 psi to about 90 psi of steam. The other injector works great from about 50 psi to well over full boiler operating pressure.
michael george

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Greg_Lewis
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Re: Southern Railways Ps-4 construction info

Post by Greg_Lewis » Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:34 am

A beautiful engine and an excellent decision on where to keep it! :D
Greg Lewis, Prop.
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michaellynn2
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Re: Southern Railways Ps-4 construction info

Post by michaellynn2 » Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:27 am

Thank You for the compliment. I have a fantastic wife who lets me keep it in the dining room on display. Her only rule is that I clean it of the grime after a weekend running of it. I will spend 2 hours of cleaning it for every hour I run it. It makes for great conversations when folks come over to visit. The first thing that folks notice is that I have a "TRAIN" in my house. Then I get asked, "where is the gas motor to run it?"
michael george

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Greg_Lewis
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Re: Southern Railways Ps-4 construction info

Post by Greg_Lewis » Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:16 pm

michaellynn2 wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:27 am
Thank You for the compliment. I have a fantastic wife who lets me keep it in the dining room on display. Her only rule is that I clean it of the grime after a weekend running of it. I will spend 2 hours of cleaning it for every hour I run it. It makes for great conversations when folks come over to visit. The first thing that folks notice is that I have a "TRAIN" in my house. Then I get asked, "where is the gas motor to run it?"

I'm reminded of when our new neighbors came over to look at my engine. The 10-year-old boy asked, "Where is the remote?" I explained that it was a real steam engine, and he then said, "But where is the remote?"
Greg Lewis, Prop.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 30 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.

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johnpenn74
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Re: Southern Railways Ps-4 construction info

Post by johnpenn74 » Sun May 02, 2021 11:09 pm

A few things to keep in mind on your quest for a SOUTHERN Railway PS4

Southern Railway PS4
- is a USRA heavy locomotive with smaller USRA light (73") Drivers.
- The PS4s also had a smaller wheel base to go with the smaller drivers.
- Rogers USRA heavy is has the larger 79" drivers and as such the longer wheel base
- Many (all?) were built with Baker, most (All?) were replaced with Walscherts.

South Pacific P-4 (??)
- Southern Pacific Railroad class p-8 to p-14 are unique southern pacific designs and not like USRA equipment
- Little Engines pacific is a stretched version of the Atlantic (which exists today in the the park next to LALS) which actually had 80 " drivers. IE the LE pacific is not an actual prototype of any real engine. But with a larger boiler the cylinders start to come close (79" vs 80")

The drawings for the Southern Railways PS4s used to be available from Rogers Cook live steam supplier (long gone) and there was also a book that had all the drawings.
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Doug_Edwards
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Re: Southern Railways Ps-4 construction info

Post by Doug_Edwards » Mon May 03, 2021 11:39 am

John,

The SP A6 and P4 classes were rebuilt at the same time and have a large commonality of parts. The cylinder pattern and valve gear support castings are the same between both locos, as are the frame spreaders. The boilers are of the same diameter, the P4 of course being longer, but both have the same sized firebox. The main difference is the driver size, which is 81" for the A6 vs. 77" for the P4. Little Engines went with 80" drivers for the 1.5" engines, but oddly enough went with 77" for the 1" locos.

The Atlantic in the park next to LALS is actually a rebuilt A3 class. There are no surviving A6 or P4 class locos. This engine was fitted with a Delta trailing truck with booster, but retains the rest of the A3 design, including the Stephenson valve gear.

When SP rebuilt the A3 and P1 classes into the A6 and P4 classes, they essentially reused the lead truck, drivers, boiler(including smokebox), and appliances. The rest was discarded. In essence, both were for all intents and purposes new locos, as they received new frames, cylinders, Walchaearts valve gear, Delta trailing trucks, cabs, etc.. The A6 class nearly equaled the P1 class in tractive effort, the difference being the 81" vs 77" drivers, bore and stroke being the same.

Regards,

Doug
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Berkman
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Re: Southern Railways Ps-4 construction info

Post by Berkman » Mon May 03, 2021 1:30 pm

The LE engines are also 1.5 scale. 10 inch drivers aren't that far off from a scale 73 inch in 1.6.

Not sure how close the rest of the axle spacing is on a LE pacific vs a USRA heavy. From prototype photos of a Erie K5 or C&O f19 the distance between the #3 driver and trailing truck axle appear to be a decent bit longer on the USRA . But I have no idea on the actual dimensions

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Dick_Morris
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Re: Southern Railways Ps-4 construction info

Post by Dick_Morris » Mon May 03, 2021 3:50 pm

For the SP A3 and P1 classes - although a rebuild discarding much of the original fabric makes one wonder why not just call it a new locomotive, I have read that characterizing it as a rebuild rather than a new locomotive was more advantageous for tax purposes.

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