Anyone here go to high lines all over the country?

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jcbrock
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Re: Anyone here go to high lines all over the country?

Post by jcbrock »

shild wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:10 am The St. Croix RR highline itself has ugly track these days. How many gauges is that? Very bad taste trying to be all things to all people like that. But I found this video from when the high line was wood and it looked a lot better. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa2iLpxjoh4
Thank you for finding that early video of the St Croix. It was fun to see friends, so many now gone. I agree the track does not look as elegant as a 3-rail highline, but there are good reasons it has ended up as it is. Since I'm the one that made those decisions, I'll offer some background. In around 2013 I was given the task of leading the highline rebuild. It had 3 gauges on 4 rails as the early video shows but was in disrepair. All those wooden posts you see in the video were rotten. We had a decision to make, with one active highline participant: tear it out or total rebuild. I couldn't see tearing it out due to the history and the fact we had a tremendous member who did use it, so hoping a rebuild would increase participation I took the job. We were offered several hundred feet of 2.5" oil pipe casing for free to use as posts, which saved thousands in cost. If we were going to put in 5 years of labor rebuilding this, I wasn't going to put wood back in so we could do it over in another 15 years. We were also offered free use of the Manitoba Live Steamers concrete forms to pour the post bases, and I took them up on that generous offer. In return, I decided to add a 5" gauge rail so they could run their engines on our track. That made 4 gauges on 5 rails. Lastly, another board member suggested we add one more rail, a 7.5" gauge rail for two reasons. The first reason was that it would allow us to roll a large-scale flatcar around the track with welder and generator as we made repairs and added the 5" rail. The second reason was it would act as a guardrail since we weren't adding any kind of anti-tipping rails at this time. I, like you, didn't really like the look of it, but I did like the function of it and making things easy for our welding volunteer was a priority. So, 5 gauges on 6 rails. There's at least one more unplanned gauge in there that works, but we won't count that.

Although I agree it's somewhat unattractive I have to disagree with your opinion it's in bad taste. It was done for valid reasons and is seeing a decent increase in usage. Having Manitoba guys bring their 5" equipment to meets has been wonderful, and we've had a member from South Africa join who has 5" gauge equipment. Our member who was my original reason for starting the rebuild is close to completing his 3rd locomotive. I had to hand off the project to him halfway through since I moved out of the area and he did a fantastic job with it. He always was the brains behind the operation! Many people who've used the ground-level 4.75" gauge track are also running that gauge on the high line. The track is rock solid being all steel and concrete and has taken minimal adjustment after several Wisconsin winters, I think it will last for 50 years or so without much maintenance. I'm admittedly biased after investing so much sweat in this, but I think the project has been totally successful and invite you to come enjoy one of our meets in the future.
John Brock
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milwiron
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Re: Anyone here go to high lines all over the country?

Post by milwiron »

Thank you John.
Before anyone voices a complaint about any track I suggest you spend at least one summer (after a spring thaw) of weekends working on a club track... especially a high line.
Denny
"Measure twice, curse once."
shild
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Re: Anyone here go to high lines all over the country?

Post by shild »

jcbrock wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:12 am
shild wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:10 am The St. Croix RR highline itself has ugly track these days. How many gauges is that? Very bad taste trying to be all things to all people like that. But I found this video from when the high line was wood and it looked a lot better. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa2iLpxjoh4
Thank you for finding that early video of the St Croix. It was fun to see friends, so many now gone. I agree the track does not look as elegant as a 3-rail highline, but there are good reasons it has ended up as it is. Since I'm the one that made those decisions, I'll offer some background. In around 2013 I was given the task of leading the highline rebuild. It had 3 gauges on 4 rails as the early video shows but was in disrepair. All those wooden posts you see in the video were rotten. We had a decision to make, with one active highline participant: tear it out or total rebuild. I couldn't see tearing it out due to the history and the fact we had a tremendous member who did use it, so hoping a rebuild would increase participation I took the job. We were offered several hundred feet of 2.5" oil pipe casing for free to use as posts, which saved thousands in cost. If we were going to put in 5 years of labor rebuilding this, I wasn't going to put wood back in so we could do it over in another 15 years. We were also offered free use of the Manitoba Live Steamers concrete forms to pour the post bases, and I took them up on that generous offer. In return, I decided to add a 5" gauge rail so they could run their engines on our track. That made 4 gauges on 5 rails. Lastly, another board member suggested we add one more rail, a 7.5" gauge rail for two reasons. The first reason was that it would allow us to roll a large-scale flatcar around the track with welder and generator as we made repairs and added the 5" rail. The second reason was it would act as a guardrail since we weren't adding any kind of anti-tipping rails at this time. I, like you, didn't really like the look of it, but I did like the function of it and making things easy for our welding volunteer was a priority. So, 5 gauges on 6 rails. There's at least one more unplanned gauge in there that works, but we won't count that.

Although I agree it's somewhat unattractive I have to disagree with your opinion it's in bad taste. It was done for valid reasons and is seeing a decent increase in usage. Having Manitoba guys bring their 5" equipment to meets has been wonderful, and we've had a member from South Africa join who has 5" gauge equipment. Our member who was my original reason for starting the rebuild is close to completing his 3rd locomotive. I had to hand off the project to him halfway through since I moved out of the area and he did a fantastic job with it. He always was the brains behind the operation! Many people who've used the ground-level 4.75" gauge track are also running that gauge on the high line. The track is rock solid being all steel and concrete and has taken minimal adjustment after several Wisconsin winters, I think it will last for 50 years or so without much maintenance. I'm admittedly biased after investing so much sweat in this, but I think the project has been totally successful and invite you to come enjoy one of our meets in the future.
I see. Thanks for the invite! I would go if I didn't live so far away. Trying to find myself more videos of that high line. So the wooden post wobbled just before you rebuilt it? Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Waushakum had that problem. Then there was this short era where there was a single concrete post/base that they were trying out. Then they moved to a new location and all the post/bases are concrete now with the normal wood bridging between them. Not seeing any major rot issues cause it's mostly what's on the ground that rots.

Although it was possible for people with bad taste to do this with the track there was before, your high line is at a whole new level now! A guy could make up a train where each car is a different gauge track, different scale, different era, different country and different level of workmanship. Does that happen? Does anyone pull LGB cars with a 7 1/2" gauge loco?
INGE
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Re: Anyone here go to high lines all over the country?

Post by INGE »

I run a 1" Shay, a 1" 2-4-4-2 "Skookum" , and a 3/4" TICH on the St. Croix Highline, and have found it to be great fun! There is something about running live steam up in the air, similar to that feeling when riding a motorcycle. I added handrails to the trestle as it is 8 ft. high at one point, and adds a lot to the comfort level for us old guys whose sense of balance isn't what it used to be. This highline is also becoming popular with our junior engineers who run "critter" type locos. Thanks to John Brock and Greg Easter for spearheading the re-build. We have added a couple more steaming bays with air, water, and electricity available the past couple of years, and plan continued improvements.
jcbrock
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Re: Anyone here go to high lines all over the country?

Post by jcbrock »

shild wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:11 pm So the wooden post wobbled just before you rebuilt it?
It was worse than that. My recollection is some were rotted through, but it had also been cut in one place for a bridge replacement and the beginnings of a rebuild that never happened. You had to run in forward to one end and reverse to the other. The track panels were held to the posts by lag bolts into the end grain, which lasted a surprisingly long time but weren't really holding any more. Kinda scary to run on, but high liners live for that thrill.
John Brock
jcbrock
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Re: Anyone here go to high lines all over the country?

Post by jcbrock »

INGE wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:06 pm Thanks to John Brock and Greg Easter for spearheading the re-build.
Thank you Jeff for joining the crew and picking up the slack when I moved west. Greg needed the help, I felt bad leaving before it was done.
John Brock
shild
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Re: Anyone here go to high lines all over the country?

Post by shild »

milwiron wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:48 am Thank you John.
Before anyone voices a complaint about any track I suggest you spend at least one summer (after a spring thaw) of weekends working on a club track... especially a high line.
Denny
I have helped the guys at Waushakum maintain their high line.
shild
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Re: Anyone here go to high lines all over the country?

Post by shild »

Just found this video. Look at that switch. Also the rail is very high above the ties isn't it? Car could derail and wheels wouldn't even bounce on the cross ties. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVF5uuLTzFQ
INGE
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Re: Anyone here go to high lines all over the country?

Post by INGE »

The switch is actually a transfer table to go from the unloading area lead to the main line, or to one of the steaming bays at the transfer table location. There are also steaming bays at the unloading area.
jcbrock
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Re: Anyone here go to high lines all over the country?

Post by jcbrock »

The St Croix rail is 1" high. There aren't ties in the conventional sense, there are gauge bars the rail is welded to.
John Brock
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Bill Shields
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Re: Anyone here go to high lines all over the country?

Post by Bill Shields »

shild wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:08 pm
milwiron wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:48 am Thank you John.
Before anyone voices a complaint about any track I suggest you spend at least one summer (after a spring thaw) of weekends working on a club track... especially a high line.
Denny
I have helped the guys at Waushakum maintain their high line.
then you should know better than to comment on the condition of anyone's track.
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
shild
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Re: Anyone here go to high lines all over the country?

Post by shild »

I just found this excellent playlist dedicated to high lines an high line locomotives. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 156gGaPqbW
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