Three Cylinder Examples?

This forum is dedicated to the Live Steam Hobbyist Community.

Moderators: cbrew, Harold_V

Post Reply
Tsukunea
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:46 am
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan

Three Cylinder Examples?

Post by Tsukunea »

I know three cylinder locomotives (besides shays) are more complex than most modelers bother with, but I've been driving myself crazy wondering if there are any live steam engines that have three cylinders? I'd like to CAD an engine with three cylinders just as a challenge for myself, maybe to be built in the future if I win the lottery :lol: :lol:
Asteamhead
Posts: 582
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:59 pm
Location: Germany, Duesseldorf

Re: Three Cylinder Examples?

Post by Asteamhead »

Hello Tsukunea,
Welcome to the world of 3-cylinder engines!
3-cylinder engines were more common here in Europe till the end of steam. Thus there are many such models on both 5" and 7 1/4" rails.
We liked the due to their brute drawbar pull :idea: , speed and stack talk tune, of course 8) !
Just some examples, have fun!

Asteamhead
Attachments
44 1167, running gear upside down
44 1167, running gear upside down
44 1167 on roller board with electric brakes
44 1167 on roller board with electric brakes
44 running on an exibition at Driburg
44 running on an exibition at Driburg
Photo train at Oberursel, 2 x class 44 with ore train
Photo train at Oberursel, 2 x class 44 with ore train
3-cyl. Pacific on 200 mm gage
3-cyl. Pacific on 200 mm gage
James Powell
Posts: 506
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:42 pm

Re: Three Cylinder Examples?

Post by James Powell »

Been done as small as Gauge 1 by Aster. (Swiss compound), and probably O gauge as well. I have an article on a Webb compound 2-2-2-2 in gauge 1 (I think in "Your Model Railway", though I could be wrong) that makes interesting reading.

Dad had a 2.5" gauge 3 cylinder engine, in the form of a LNER V2. I don't think he spent that much time working on it before he decided to move on to something more his style.

While small, you have to think that UK based inside cylinder engines aren't that uncommon, even in 2.5" gauge. That's 2x the stuff in the same space as a 3 cylinder engine. I missed the chance to buy a set of motions for a 3.5" GWR (UK) King for $300 in 1998 or so...4 sets of motion on that.

James
Pat Fahey
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:45 am

Re: Three Cylinder Examples?

Post by Pat Fahey »

Hi
Here is an example of Three-cylinder power, built by Bill VanBrocklin of Dover, Mass. Bill Built the locomotive, 1987, the locomotive did run fine, but he did have his troubles with the third cylinder, going out of time. The current location of the locomotive is unknown.
This locomotive was Bill's number 34. The location of the locomotive is the old Waushakum Live Steamers track, on Norfolk Street in Holliston, Mass.
Note the Third cylinder under the Smokebox. On the record I have of the locomotive, Bill does state, Walsch valve gear, with a 2-1 lever? maybe someone with more knowledge can explain what Bill is trying to say, 2-1 lever?
Hope you like the photos Pat WLS.
I did crop the photo in order to see the Third Cylinder, under the Smokebox.
Bills # 34 Photo by Bill VanBrocklin Pat Fahey collection
Bills # 34 Photo by Bill VanBrocklin Pat Fahey collection
Bills # 34 Photo by Bill Vanbrocklin Pat Fahey collection.
Bills # 34 Photo by Bill Vanbrocklin Pat Fahey collection.
SteveM
Posts: 7763
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 6:18 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Three Cylinder Examples?

Post by SteveM »

The LBSC Heilan Lassie is a three cylinder.
HeilanLassie.JPG
Steve
James Powell
Posts: 506
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:42 pm

Re: Three Cylinder Examples?

Post by James Powell »

Pat, the 2:1 lever will give the centre cylinder it's valve timing/motion based on the other two valves actions. The position of the piston is fixed by the crank axle design (usually 120% for a 3 cylinder simple engine), so you can use the relative position of the other two sets of valve gear to run the 3rd (and 4th) set of piston valves. It's all geometry to me :)

James
User avatar
Bill Shields
Posts: 10464
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:57 am
Location: 39.367, -75.765
Contact:

Re: Three Cylinder Examples?

Post by Bill Shields »

And potential maintenance headaches.

KISS..

Have to admit that they sound really cool coming down the track
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
Asteamhead
Posts: 582
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:59 pm
Location: Germany, Duesseldorf

Re: Three Cylinder Examples?

Post by Asteamhead »

Hello Bill,
Yes, I agree. Their sound can be like music 8). The sound is not easily to be forgotten when running full throttle. And that is what they are intended for :D . Just remember your UP 9000s struggleing upgrade on Archer Hill!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5sxwJDVIrM

In case, the inside parts of the running gear is constructed very carefully, you won't have much troubles or maintainence :)

Have fun!
Asteamhead
User avatar
Harold_V
Posts: 20231
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:02 pm
Location: Onalaska, WA USA

Re: Three Cylinder Examples?

Post by Harold_V »

Wow! That's totally impressive!
Thanks for the video.
One question. The stack talk is very robust. How did you accomplish such a deep throated sound? Very, very nice.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
Asteamhead
Posts: 582
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:59 pm
Location: Germany, Duesseldorf

Re: Three Cylinder Examples?

Post by Asteamhead »

Hello Harold,
Look, that extreme run on sanded rails with maximum drawbar pull of almost 100 pounds @ 9 bar (full throttle) and 75 % cutoff prduced that sound we love 8) . Cylinders are pretty small in diameter (adhesion factor of about 0.33) which allows to run full throttle :) @ cutoff 40 ... 75 % on dry rails.
I regret, at just standard conditions the sound isn't that impressive. It's not like the prototype which had a deep soft tripple sound even at no load :)
I tried to achive this by means of a wide blast pipe (10 mm) in combination with a wide stack (2 ") and a long smoke box. A little negative lead of the exaust edges of the piston valves will help, too.
A friend of mine, who built several engines for Swiss(!) customers managed to build a smaller Decapod with 3-cylinders and a similar to Gresley valve gear.
This engine of very high craftsmanship produces an even better sound already at medium load 8) . We had it running at contious load on a simple rail of wood :idea: . The triple sound was unbelieveably! Sorry for I have just photos, no youtube videos :cry: He tried even more negative lead of the exaust edges - seems to be successfully :lol:
Perhaps you or others may try such treatment, too?

All the best
Asteamhead
Attachments
58 3-cyl., 5 " gauge
58 3-cyl., 5 " gauge
58 valve gear, similar to the Gresley type
58 valve gear, similar to the Gresley type
58, digging in on a rail of wood
58, digging in on a rail of wood
User avatar
Harold_V
Posts: 20231
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:02 pm
Location: Onalaska, WA USA

Re: Three Cylinder Examples?

Post by Harold_V »

Thanks. I was amazed at the performance, as well as the sound.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
jkimberln
Posts: 133
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:32 am
Location: Richmond, California

Re: Three Cylinder Examples?

Post by jkimberln »

My 3-cyl Schools Class locomotive has Walshaerts valve gear on all three cylinders. The center cylinder has an eccentric instead of a return crank which the outside cylinders have. It is a Henry Greenly and Earnest Steel design. There is a rather incomplete plans set for this engine in 7 1/4" gauge somewhere in the UK.
Post Reply