Oil firing question

[NP317]

For that sized firebox I would consider using two burners of the size I have.
Food for thought.

How many oil burners is the Big Boy 4014 using? I've not heard.
That firebox is on the order of 10' x 20'!
RussN

[K. Browers]

Hello Glenn,
Here is a web page that might be interesting to you and others. The puffing Billy Railway in Australia converted one of their engines to burn oil. https://puffingbilly.com.au/news/worksh ... ou-rather/ Perhaps this can give you some ideas.
Cheers
Karel

[Glenn Brooks]

Russ:
ahh, two burners- perfect solution! Fits perfectly with the Puffing Billy article that Karel linked in his post.

Karel: thanks for the link. I really like their 5 burner oil pan design. I suppose one could make up an assembly for small fireboxes using 2 or 3 small nozzles, maybe spaced and pointed to different areas of the firebox, if one isn’t enough. And a pilot light would be excellent also. My 12” ga Campbell has a deep ash pan and keyhole boiler- so plenty of space for an oil pan style burner installation.

And the small gas bottle with long nozzle seems like a terrific idea for firing miniature locos.

[Emfinger]

Nelson Reidel put a pressure regulator on his atomizer that eliminated a great deal of fiddling with that part of firing his oil burner.

Hi you seem to be the person I have been looking for. My name is Tom and I'm installing a Bagley Burner in my little 2-4-2 Good info seems difficult to come by.

You mentioned a regulator but I don't know what the pressure range should be. Someone mentioned an MAR-1P-2 but I sure could use some help.

Thank you
Tom

[K. Browers]

Hello Tom,
Sorry Glenn to drift off subject but this might be useful to you too. The IBLS Wikipedia website has a design for a pressure regulator. http://ibls.org/mediawiki/index.php?tit ... _Regulator

I have been thinking about the oil firing system. The nozzles you posted a link to earlier would I am sure work with steam instead of air. Perhaps run the steam through a loop like the Puffing Billy does for some super heat. There was also a mention of a slight pressurization of the oil tank. Two of these regulators one on the oil tank and one on the burner system would give you a good control of your fire and you could go even further and divide the burners to be separately controllable. A small burner left on all the time as a pilot might be something to look into also.
Karel

[Bill Shields]

be VERY CAREFUL with the concept of pressurizing the tank.

One small leak (tank or any line) and you have vaporized fuel oil flying around in an area where, by definition, there is a lot of flame.

[Glenn Brooks]

Hi Tom,

Welcome to the forum! You have asked an excellent question, and one I don’t yet know the answer to. Oil firing is a bit of unknown to me, as almost everyone in our area fires with propane. So a lot of knowledge about propane, not so much about oil...

So hopefully one of the more knowledgable oilers will let us both know about operating pressure.

Actually, with Karel ‘s link, the first thing I thought about was what pressure should the IBLS regulator actually be set for?
Secondly, with oil firing, clearly there should be a range of fuel delivery . I assume the steam flow would govern the rate of atomization? So maybe a short primer would be valuable here. Hoping someone can add some detail...

Re: pressuring the tank- Iam thinking something under 5psi would be adequate- even 2 PSI maybe. Simple brass tubing with standard flare fittings, even rubber fuel line with clamped fittings would be adequate for < 5PSI.

If I try out oil, I would use a small 5 gal air compressed air tank, retrofitted with the plumbing and necessary shut off values, etc, mounted on the top rear of my tender.

I am also thinking the same system could also be fitted to a small forge for casting and tempering/heating work- for example hardening steel, and sweating wheels onto shafts, etc.

Lots to think about and learn! As always...

Glenn

[NP317]

I've not yet oil fired small boilers, just full-sized steam locomotives.
The oil tanks are not pressurized, except for a few special locomotive designs like the S.P Cab Forwards.
They had to move oil the length of the locomotive to the burners.
Gravity feed is the normal method of delivering oil from the tender tank to the burners of most locos.

I've not fired a locomotive with an atomizer pressure gauge, although I suspect some were so equipped.
The fire is regulated by observing the flame color and smoke out the stack. Even the fire sound is useful information.
A greenish thin flame means too much atomizer. Loud hissing sounds.
A red flame could mean too little atomizer or too much oil. More smoke would result, with muffled sounds.
An orange flame was in the correct mixture range, with little smoke out the stack.
Air dampers are also adjusted to get the best flame mixture. The larger the required fire, the more air is admitted for combustion.

Bottom line: A manually carbureted fire.
Hopefully someone will pitch in with details on oil firing our smaller steam locomotives.
RN

[Glenn Brooks]

Russ, did you have a separate oil flow valve- to allow more oil flow? Of just increase steam to atomize more fuel??

Glenn

[K. Browers]

Hello,
Harold is correct it would be well advised to use very low pressure only enough to help make the oil flow. This was mentioned on the page I linked too. And an absolute must would be a pressure relief valve on the tank. safety first. There night be a problem with pressurizing the oil tank with steam as you might end up with a little water in your fuel It probably will go through the burner with the oil without notice but it might be something to be aware of.
Karel

[Glenn Brooks]

karel, thanks. I doubt I will pressurize the tank. Just don’t think it necessary, at least never seen it years ago when many more oil burners were around. But, good discussion. If I did find it necessary, my best thought is to use a small battery powered air pump, and/or draw air off the brake lines....

Glenn

[Mike Walsh]

I do not think that your fuel is viscous enough to require pressurizing the tank. Simply having your tank sitting on top of your water tank on your tender should be sufficient. Gravity feed is your friend. It is also safest.

We gravity feed at the WF&P. It does just fine. We do have the occasional issue with debris blockage, but I have been trying to train folks to flush the oil tank annually, but that seems to go to the wayside. Not only that, but every time I fire up, I clean out the oil and steam/air lines. Folks aren't interested in learning what I'm doing, so they continue to have problems. I was just told a few weeks ago "you know, she runs best when you're out there firing it up..." - wonder why?

We run between 5-7 psi on our atomizers. On occasion we've had to turn it up to 12 or so PSI, but that's rare. We have regulators mounted on our engines so that we have a constant supply of 15-20 psi on the back side of the atomizing valve, regardless of boiler pressure (so long as we are over 20 psi boiler pressure, of course). Oil is fed to a needle valve for fine control.

The ATT&NW uses a fuel pump to provide positive pressure against the oil valve, resulting in very fine control. However this is a different beast than our little 12" gauge counterparts. We have implemented a fuel pump on our largest engine at the WF&P and while we do see some benefit, we can still run without the fuel pump by switching to the bypass (we included a bypass in the plumbing so if we ever lose our battery power on the line, we can still get back home).

Don't over think it, Glenn. KISS. If you complicate it from the get go, you could get in trouble very quickly.

If you ever want to come to St. Louis to see how we fire up our locomotives at the WF&P, let me know. Our operating season ends the last weekend of October and we'll be starting up again in May.