Visiting the WF&P in St. Louis

Discuss park gauge trains and large scale miniature railways having track gauges from 8" to 24" gauge and designed at scales of 2" to the foot or greater - whether modeled for personal use, or purpose built for amusement park operation or private railroading.

Moderators: Glenn Brooks, Harold_V

Forum rules
Topics may include: antique park gauge train restoration, preservation, and history; building new grand scale equipment from scratch; large scale miniature railway construction, maintenance, and safe operation; fallen flags; track, gauge, and equipment standards; grand scale vendor offerings; and, compiling an on-line motive power roster.
User avatar
davidqueener
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2003 7:02 pm
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Contact:

Visiting the WF&P in St. Louis

Post by davidqueener »

Gentlemen,

I had the distinct pleasure of visiting the Wabash, Frisco & Pacific 12" gauge railroad located just outside of St. Louis this past weekend. It's been about 27 years since I was a member during my graduate school days in the early 90s, and the operation has added a large stable of additional locomotives, some new gondolas, a functional signaling system, and additional track. In fact the existing track was in the very best shape I have ever seen it. The members are friendly and it was a treat to ride as well as to tour the shop and to see some of the behind-the-scenes tools used to keep the operation going.

Part of my motivation for visiting was to look at the running gear and track standards used by the WF&P as a prelude to designing and building my own 12" & 7.5" dual gauge railroad. It is a remarkable testimony to the member's ingenuity and resourcefulness that locomotives dating from pre-WWI are able to operate with rolling stock built from the 1940s through the present time, and that other locomotives of more modern vintage, both diesel-outline gas hydraulics and their latest new build steamer, an oil burning 4-8-2 utilizing ancient House of David castings, have been made compatible to operate on the same one and a half miles of track, mostly laid from second hand 12 lbs. rail. Two Hudsons built from 1950s vintage Wagner castings rub shoulders with two Pacifics designed and built in the 1920s by Henry Greenly. A smattering of other locomotives and cars were built by live steamers of a previous generation or two.

Maintenance of way innovations include plastic ties measuring 4x4x22 inches made from the recycled upholstery and dashes of junked cars. I suppose there are bits of old Vegas, Novas, Camrys and Tauruses making up the track bed!

One of the other items that strikes me about the WF&P operation is that its rolling stock and locomotives are built to operate, and operate reliably. These are not exact scale models, either in 2.5" = 1 foot scale or 2.625" = 1 foot; so there is some crudity in their design, but they are simple and robust. A fully loaded WF&P gondola easily carries five adults and is no doubt capable of a good deal more weight. 8" OD cast iron wheels last about 20 years on the WF&P I was told by one shop man.

Another observation I made was that most of the operating crew for the two trains being run the day I visited were mostly made up of 20 somethings. This is very encouraging to see. The graying of the hobby in the smaller scales is a genuine concern. That the WF&P encourages younger men (and a few young ladies) to be actively involved is commendable and suggests the live steam phase of our hobby will not only continue but may be more healthy than our friends in the 2-rail electric world.

I will be posting a few photos of some of the bits and pieces I saw, not just 3 quarter wedge shots of the locomotives. It was an instructive and helpful visit. And I was glad to renew my membership after all this time.

Cheers,

Dave Queener

PS--We'll start with oil-burning 4-8-2 #928 below, built from House of David castings by members of the WF&P in the last decade or so. It is the most powerful locomotive on the WF&P, is equipped with a unique mechanical lubricator, and sports an almost Illinois Central look, with its squared off sandbox.
Attachments
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 354 - Crop.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 355 - Crop.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 365 - Crop.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 363.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 359.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 357.jpg
Last edited by davidqueener on Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:43 am, edited 3 times in total.
Pastor, St. Paul Presbyterian Church
www.StPaulPres.com (865) 209-5654

Owner, Cumberland Model Engineering
www.CumberlandModelEngineering.com (865) 947-7935
User avatar
davidqueener
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2003 7:02 pm
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Contact:

Re: Visiting the WF&P in St. Louis

Post by davidqueener »

Here are a few pics of the WF&P stable of locomotives. First a Hudson made from Wagner parts:
Attachments
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 309.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 306.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 308.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 307.jpg
Pastor, St. Paul Presbyterian Church
www.StPaulPres.com (865) 209-5654

Owner, Cumberland Model Engineering
www.CumberlandModelEngineering.com (865) 947-7935
User avatar
davidqueener
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2003 7:02 pm
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Contact:

Re: Visiting the WF&P in St. Louis

Post by davidqueener »

Secondly a Hudson made from a Wagner 4-4-4 that was subsequently extended into a 4-6-4:
Attachments
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 367.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 369.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 368.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 303.jpg
Pastor, St. Paul Presbyterian Church
www.StPaulPres.com (865) 209-5654

Owner, Cumberland Model Engineering
www.CumberlandModelEngineering.com (865) 947-7935
User avatar
davidqueener
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2003 7:02 pm
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Contact:

Re: Visiting the WF&P in St. Louis

Post by davidqueener »

Castings for a Wagner tender truck:
Attachments
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 235.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 236.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 242.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 238.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 239.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 240.jpg
Pastor, St. Paul Presbyterian Church
www.StPaulPres.com (865) 209-5654

Owner, Cumberland Model Engineering
www.CumberlandModelEngineering.com (865) 947-7935
User avatar
davidqueener
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2003 7:02 pm
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Contact:

Re: Visiting the WF&P in St. Louis

Post by davidqueener »

A Greenly Pacific undergoing a rebuild. Note the English plate frame design--and the brand new driver castings! The rods were also being rebushed and had been removed and were being cleaned for this occasion:
Attachments
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 290 - Crop.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 296.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 297.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 229.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 230.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 231.jpg
Last edited by davidqueener on Wed Jul 13, 2022 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pastor, St. Paul Presbyterian Church
www.StPaulPres.com (865) 209-5654

Owner, Cumberland Model Engineering
www.CumberlandModelEngineering.com (865) 947-7935
User avatar
davidqueener
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2003 7:02 pm
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Contact:

Re: Visiting the WF&P in St. Louis

Post by davidqueener »

A 12" gauge pacific of unknown origins, but with Southern valve gear!
Attachments
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 300.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 301.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 302.jpg
Pastor, St. Paul Presbyterian Church
www.StPaulPres.com (865) 209-5654

Owner, Cumberland Model Engineering
www.CumberlandModelEngineering.com (865) 947-7935
User avatar
davidqueener
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2003 7:02 pm
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Contact:

Re: Visiting the WF&P in St. Louis

Post by davidqueener »

#180, a 4-4-0 built in the 1920s. Walshaerts valve gear was added sometime after 1995:
Attachments
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 370.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 376.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 375 - Crop.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 374.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 372.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 371.jpg
Last edited by davidqueener on Wed Jul 13, 2022 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pastor, St. Paul Presbyterian Church
www.StPaulPres.com (865) 209-5654

Owner, Cumberland Model Engineering
www.CumberlandModelEngineering.com (865) 947-7935
User avatar
davidqueener
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2003 7:02 pm
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Contact:

Re: Visiting the WF&P in St. Louis

Post by davidqueener »

#300, a 4-4-2 Atlantic type with Baker valve gear built by WF&P member V.A. Schmidt in 1958, undergoing a complete overhaul. Note the bar frames and the addition of brass tubing with grease fittings at their ends so as to ease lubrication of hard-to-get-at components between the frames:
Attachments
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 310 - Crop.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 311 - Crop.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 312.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 313.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 314.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 317.jpg
Last edited by davidqueener on Wed Jul 13, 2022 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pastor, St. Paul Presbyterian Church
www.StPaulPres.com (865) 209-5654

Owner, Cumberland Model Engineering
www.CumberlandModelEngineering.com (865) 947-7935
User avatar
davidqueener
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2003 7:02 pm
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Contact:

Re: Visiting the WF&P in St. Louis

Post by davidqueener »

The WF&P rolling stock is generally of steel construction, although a few wooden flat cars of 1940s vintage are still used in MOW service. Some of these cars are almost as old as the locomotives that pull them!
Attachments
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 253.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 267 - Crop.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 268.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 269.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 271 - Crop.jpg
Pastor, St. Paul Presbyterian Church
www.StPaulPres.com (865) 209-5654

Owner, Cumberland Model Engineering
www.CumberlandModelEngineering.com (865) 947-7935
User avatar
davidqueener
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2003 7:02 pm
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Contact:

Re: Visiting the WF&P in St. Louis

Post by davidqueener »

The most common riding cars are the steel gondolas, although crews typically ride on a steel flat car with wooden seats located at either end of trains. Some of the more "scale" cars, though, are kept for MOW duties. Check out this Frisco steel gon:
Attachments
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 257 - Crop.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 258 - Crop.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 261.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 259.jpg
Pastor, St. Paul Presbyterian Church
www.StPaulPres.com (865) 209-5654

Owner, Cumberland Model Engineering
www.CumberlandModelEngineering.com (865) 947-7935
User avatar
davidqueener
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2003 7:02 pm
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Contact:

Re: Visiting the WF&P in St. Louis

Post by davidqueener »

WF&P rolling stock mostly rides on cast iron trucks with ball bearings. These are roughly "Bettendorf" style trucks, minus the prototypical journal boxes, but again, these plain trucks are meant to be functional:
Attachments
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 250.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 249.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 247.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 246.jpg
Pastor, St. Paul Presbyterian Church
www.StPaulPres.com (865) 209-5654

Owner, Cumberland Model Engineering
www.CumberlandModelEngineering.com (865) 947-7935
User avatar
davidqueener
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2003 7:02 pm
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Contact:

Re: Visiting the WF&P in St. Louis

Post by davidqueener »

The WF&P also continues to operate some archbar trucks, again with ball bearings, mainly on MOW equipment. The earliest generation of WF&P archbar trucks using ball bearings attempted to capture each bearing, not in a journal box, but clamped between two pieces of steel channel.
Attachments
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 320 - Crop.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 322 - Crop.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 251 - Crop.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 285 - Crop.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 284 - Crop.jpg
St. Louis Trip (July 2022) 286 - Crop.jpg
Last edited by davidqueener on Wed Jul 13, 2022 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pastor, St. Paul Presbyterian Church
www.StPaulPres.com (865) 209-5654

Owner, Cumberland Model Engineering
www.CumberlandModelEngineering.com (865) 947-7935
Post Reply